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      CommentAuthorNeko Ewen
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2009
     
    Slime Story is a game I've been working on for entirely too long. The short short tagline is "teenagers hunt cute monsters for spending money." It takes place in a world much like ours, but ten years ago magical portals opened up all over the world and started dumping out cute monsters like something out of a Korean MMO. In some parts of the world people are fighting wars over control of portals, but in small towns in America teenagers have taken up monster hunting as a hobby. This game is about those teenagers, a mixture of hunting and everyday life stuff. Yesterday I finally ran a playtest session with my regular gaming group.

    Here's the current playtest draft (including most of the paper fiddly bits necessary to play), and here's my more detailed playtest report.

    The first playtest was very encouraging. I think the basic rules, especially for Encounters (fights with monsters) are basically sound, if in need of lots of refinement. The major issue I'm grappling with right now is how to better encourage role-playing, because for all the elements of the game relating to character interaction, the first playtest session was kind of flat. Some of that was basically mistakes made in preparing characters and explaining the game, though.

    A session (episode) of Slime Story is divided into Encounters and Interludes. Encounters are simple tactical monster fights, while Interludes are meant to basically give the characters free reign to recover, pursue social stuff, etc. Although players can have social elements be flashbacks or take place over cell phones (call up the girl you want to ask out, or flash back to when you saw her in person the other day), Interludes basically take place where the characters are out in a semi-wilderness area outside down hunting monsters. One of the key problems with the playtest was that a lot of the secondary characters (more or less NPCs, though players can also play them) didn't have any particular reason to be out there. Also, I should've made it clearer to the players that you can role-play and then select mechanical elements to engage accordingly. (So for example asking a girl out could turn into a Bonding action, a social conflict, or a Recovery depending on how things work out.)

    I'm not sure I've explained it adequately, but I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to make it so the rules better encourage players to engage the social side of the situation and role-play more.
    • CommentAuthorJ. Walton
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2009
     
    Posted By: Neko EwenInterludes basically take place where the characters are out in a semi-wilderness area outside down hunting monsters. One of the key problems with the playtest was that a lot of the secondary characters (more or less NPCs, though players can also play them) didn't have any particular reason to be out there.

    That seems to be a pretty fundamental problem. How are you going to tackle that? Honestly, is there a reason that interludes can't take place back at home too? What kinds of NPCs were you planning on having out in the wilderness for the players to interact with? Or were you assuming that the interludes would be with each other, maybe about the NPCs that were back at home without directly involving them?
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      CommentAuthorSimon C
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2009
     
    "Role-play" encompasses a vast range of behaviours. I'm guessing you mean "describe what your character does, and say what they say" or something like that.

    A trick that I've found useful is to reverse the order of some rules. Istead of saying "choose a type of scene to have, and then play out the scene" you say "play out a scene, and then the other players tell you what kind of scene that was" or whatever.

    Something else that might be a problem is that tactical fighting games are like the death of "role-playing" in the sense you're using it. In tactical games you often don't need to interact with the shared fiction of the game at all, and you're simply interacting with a set of rules. In my experience people find it difficult to switch between modes, and will start to see everything else as padding between monster fights.
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      CommentAuthorNeko Ewen
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2009
     
    Jonathan:
    I think that may be a good chunk of the solution I need. I'm thinking that what goes on during interludes needs to be much less tethered in space and time to the monster hunting session for a given episode. But yes, I was hoping for some "intra-party" stuff too, and in the playtest the PCs were a bunch of guys who basically got along just fine. (But then, the game should still work with a group like that.)

    Simon:
    In terms of "role-playing" I'm more concerned with encouraging the players to get in and do interesting things during Interludes. In the playtest they were doing okay on that considering, but there was not a lot going on for them to play to in the first place. I am probably trying to have my cake and eat it too in terms of involving both tactical combat and role-playing stuff, but I want to try to make it happen all the same. The thing about role-playing and then picking what rules to engage accordingly rather than the other way around is probably the way to go, and is in fact mentioned in the rules, but for that first playtest session I needed to convey it to the players better.

    I'm wondering if the game might work better with the rules very specifically prompting players to set up scenes of various types during interludes (a little more like PTA), though I'm not sure how to properly implement that, or if it's really necessary in a game session where you're using the tools at hand better than we were during our first dry run.
    • CommentAuthorJ. Walton
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2009
     
    Ewen, you know about Bliss Stage / Mouse Guard style interludes, yeah? Where you get resource refreshes for having specific things happen? That might be a way to make sure the interludes have teeth and are not completely disconnected from the rest of the game.
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      CommentAuthorSimon C
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2009
     
    I think the way to make "play it and then pick which rules to engage" work is to make sure that someone else is doing the picking - or rather, they're making a judgement about what's happened in the SIS, and invoking the appropriate rule. I don't know for sure, but I think there's a weird thing that happens when you're judging which rules to apply to your own play.
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      CommentAuthorNeko Ewen
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2010 edited
     
    So, I had a new idea for making Slime Story work more the way I want it to, but I wanted to get some outside opinions on it before I really tackle the task of basically ripping out major chunks of the rules to put new stuff in (yet again).

    The idea is that the game in large part revolves around two currencies, called Awesome Points and Suck Points, which are sort of an abstract representation of of the potential for awesomeness and suckiness in a character's life. You start out with a small number of AP, and get another one any time you roll doubles on a check (it's 2d6 roll-over) other than snake eyes (which is a fumble). Characters can spend AP or take SP to use special abilities, recover from damage, etc. during battles, but other characters can use them to make their lives difficult during interludes.

    The procedures for this part are where I seem to be floundering. My tentative idea is to basically have characters spend another characters' AP to deliver an "ultimatum," kind of like when you've won a conflict in In a Wicked Age (you can impose a Status Effect like Angry, Exhausted, Depressed, etc.). I like the idea of having role-playing scenes be RP with some teeth at the end rather than a blow-by-blow conflict mechanic (personal preference). I'm thinking they should be tied to the target character's Issues/Goal/Connections (your girlfriend can mess with you better than other people), though I don't know that I would want to *limit* interlude vignettes to that. I'm thinking characters would also be able to spend AP during interludes for beneficial effects.

    And there's the question of how the point economy would really work out, and whether the four attributes (Guild, Wiki, Hunter, Warrior) would all be useful enough if the social side of things doesn't have much in the way of checks to make.
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      CommentAuthorWolfe
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2010
     
    I'll need to think further over your latest question here, Ewen.

    Regarding the earlier point about where Interludes take place.. I hope you've decided to go with untethering them from locale and the hunt. Having read your 2008 NaNo story, the idea of having them take place primarily in the wilderness struck me as being false to the source material. Much of what happened in the story took place in people's homes, in the MonsterMart, the mall... and a couple scenes at school too, I think? I mean, sure, there were definitely interludes out in the wilderness (or deep underground) but those were maybe 50% of the story, at most.
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      CommentAuthorWolfe
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2010
     
    Over in one of the Accountability threads, Ewen wrote:
    I'm definitely making them (interludes) untethered in time from the monster hunting run the PCs are on (so they can be flashbacks or even flash-forwards as a matter of course), but I need to figure out what to do with the Awesome Points/Suck Points mechanic as it relates to interlude scenes. The idea is that you accumulate Suck Points basically by doing special stuff to save your bacon and keep fighting, but then other players can use them against you. I was thinking spending someone else's Suck Point would be like jumping to the part of an In a Wicked Age conflict where you negotiate consequences, but I'm not at all sure that's the right way to go.

    Question #1: Why would you want to inflict Suck on your fellow players? (honest question, not criticism)

    Question #2: Does gaining a Suck point give the same mechanical benefits as spending an Awesome point?

    Question #3: Is there any limitation on how many Suck points you can have?

    Question #3a: Is there any limitation on how many Suck points can be used against you in any given scene?

    Question #3b: Is there any limitation on who may inflict Suck on whom?
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      CommentAuthorNeko Ewen
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2010
     
    1. You don't get to give other players Suck Points. You can get one by rolling a fumble (a 2 on the 2d6 roll) and you can get 2 by losing all your HP in an encounter, but otherwise you have a choice about whether you take any. (Not always a fun choice, but a choice nonetheless.)

    2. In most cases taking an SP has the same effect as spending an AP, including letting you use special abilities, heal your character after a battle, etc.

    3. I'm thinking there should be a cap, both in terms of limiting players' ability to spend points on stuff and in terms of not letting a given character wind up with too many to work through in interludes, but I haven't implemented such a thing yet.

    3a. I was thinking if you use someone's SP against them in an interlude, you only get to use one at a time. But maybe tying it to connection ranks (people who know you better can hurt you more kind of thing) would be a good way to go. I do want to avoid having interludes be *too* long.

    3b. I probably need to come up with something a little more formal, but I'm thinking there's a turn order where you go in descending order of accumulated SP, and characters with higher connections to you get priority to use your SP. Once the players are done the GM has the option to have Life In General spend characters' SP to mess them up.
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      CommentAuthorWolfe
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2010
     
    You misunderstood my #1. Let me ask again. Why would I want to use your Suck points to make your character's life suck?
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      CommentAuthorNeko Ewen
    • CommentTimeMar 18th 2010
     
    Hmmm... Put that way I'm not as sure it's the right thing for the game. But the idea is that you can get what you want from other characters, as well as avoid the GM inflicting something worse.
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      CommentAuthorWolfe
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2010
     
    This is both ambiguous and intriguing:
    But the idea is that you can get what you want from other characters, as well as avoid the GM inflicting something worse.


    Least interesting question first: Why is the GM's assumed to be worse?

    More important question: What do you mean "you can get what you want from other characters"?
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      CommentAuthorNeko Ewen
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2010
     
    The idea is that if you spend someone's Suck Point, you get to give them an "ultimatum," where you either agree to a consequence in the game's fiction ("Rita goes on a date with me..."), or you get to impose a mechanical consequence ("...Or you take the Upset condition"). It's the "sticks" thing in Vincent Baker's more recent games, where if I beat you in a conflict you have a strong incentive to do what I say, but you still have the freedom to make your own decision.

    When the GM steps in, he can just directly spend SP on conditions ("No more vignettes? Okay, everyone with SP left is Exhausted.") which in turn means the group could have that much harder of a time in the next encounter.
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      CommentAuthorWolfe
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2010
     
    Ah. Hmm. Is Slime Story play meant to be competitive, or antagonistic between players? I get the strong impression that IaWA is meant to be competitive/antagonistic, so these "do this, or you'll get this" rules work for it. Fastlane also had a rule that did something similar that could be used on NPCs or PCs. I once beat the hell out of another PC with the rule, because he wouldn't accept owing me a 'favor'. I hadn't really gotten the impression that Slime Story was about those sorts of PvP conflicts, so if it is, that definitely puts a new spin on things.

    What is the GMs motivation for hammering players with their SP? Is there supposed to be direct competition between the GM and the players?
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      CommentAuthorNeko Ewen
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2010
     
    My concept for the Slime Story RPG is that it gives players a lot of freedom to shape how their characters' stories unfold, so that you can be very friendly (not sure you'd get the reference, but at the happy end it could be "Azumanga Daioh with monster hunting") or very cruel and competitive. In that light I want the game mechanics to allow competition, but I don't want them to encourage it. I really like the idea of encounters being able to leave characters with "bad karma" that they need to work through, but making the primary way of getting rid of that be so conflict-y is probably the wrong way to go.

    The GM's role is meant to be relatively cooperative, and I think the thing with the GM hammering players with SP is more of a play procedure kind of thing. You're going to bleed off those SP somehow, and if you don't do it with other characters, Fate in general brings down some hurting.
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      CommentAuthorWolfe
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2010
     
    I'm going to rephrase your reply, to make sure I properly understand it.

    The fiction can be fluffy bunnies (that you kill!) or sniping backstabbing soap opera, with either way being equally valid ways to play. The mechanics shouldn't advocate one end of the spectrum over the other, leaving that choice purely up to the players. Bad things should happen to the characters, either as a causal result of what happens in encounters, or only a thematic result. These bad things should be mechanically regulated and modeled. This happening should never, ever be the cause of irritation between players, even if it sucks for the characters. Put another way, you should be invested in the bad shit that happens to your character, rather than merely accepting, grudging or otherwise.

    The GM inflicts the Suck because it is part of his job to do so, as this allows the Suck to be siphoned off, and because it can makes for a more interesting story.

    Additionally, all of the Suck meets anime genre conventions.

    Assuming my paraphrase is basically what you meant, I'm going to go forward with some specific advice/observations.

    There needs to be incentive for the player whose character has accumulated Suck points to get rid of them. Mechanical incentive isn't necessary, but it does allow you as the designer to give incentive, rather than relying on the group simply being invested in the fictional merits of Suck. This can either be carrot (you get something by your character getting hit with the Suck) or stick (those Suck points are bad for you in some tangible way. Get rid of them before it gets to be too much!) or some mix of the two. Ideally, this means that the player will welcome either another player or the GM using their Suck points, completely aside from the fictional concerns.

    In addition to or instead of the above, there should be a choice to be made in the use of Suck points. One should lead toward the fluffy bunny end of the spectrum, and the other should lead toward the backstabby end. The incentives for each should either be identical, or balanced in such a way as to allow the choice to be based entirely on personal preference or thematic concerns. The ideal result here is that the spectrum is highlighted, with people realizing they CAN make the choice to go either way, or thread a middle path between the two. This is of course based on the assumption that the spectrum is important to you.

    I have more, but it took longer than you might expect to write those last two paragraphs, and I've lost the coherent concepts I had when I began. I'll wait for your response, and play it by ear from there.