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Adam_Dray

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  • And that feeling belongs in his PIS during play, not in the shared model of the game state.
  • What if the randomizer ran once when you pressed the button, and never changed again after that? Say it said, "99.9." What was the frequency before you pressed the button? My preferred description/explanation would be like this: * The frequency w…
  • Contradictions are introduced into the blorb by mistakes: misstatements, misrememberings, misreadings. Essentially, my issue is that your model does not contain a single source of truth. Mine does. When someone runs a game set in The Forgotten Real…
  • So as not to derail my own thread, I posted Adam mines old LiveJournal posts about Game State for some sideways examples of this stuff, even the "new" formulation, that I wrote in 2008 on LJ.
  • Anyway, maybe these give some more insight into where my head is at. I picked excerpts that I still find interesting and useful. The originals contain some stuff that I feel is less useful, but still interesting. For more like that, click on any a…
  • In a theory thread on Resolution: Resolution Here's how a role-playing game works. Each player does this at the same time that every other player does it. Every play group works out a Procedure to synchronize these steps (and hopefully the System …
  • Please address the “waiting room of the blorb” example when the error is in the first session of a 75 session campaign. Let’s say there’s an error in session one of a 75 session campaign. Is the entire campaign now not taking place in the blorb but…
  • Digging back to Sandra's big posts. Lots of work for me to do. Patience, grasshopper.
  • All of this is because my Game State isn't a collection of facts that were inserted by player belief, as Sandra's Blorb seems to be. My Game State is the actual truth of the five components of Exploration, and it only needs one version of the truth …
  • Sandra, Here's an attempt to convince that the Game State probably should not contain errors. Adam, Bai, Cian, and Diana are playing D&D. Adam and Bai believe Elminster's eyes are blue. Cian and Diana believe Elminster's eyes are gray. They in…
  • (I prefer to think in terms of reference frames these days, SIS / MIS / PIS / Game State all being examples of particular frames, but that doesn't seem to have caught on with anyone else yet.) I don't use them because my model doesn't need MIS or SI…
  • The language you use - and, even moreso, Adam's language - confuses me totally. It sounds like bizarre hyperbole, and I don't know how else to interpret it. In comparison, I found Vincent's use of "offscreen canon gamestate" somewhat more useful, …
  • Hey @Adam_Dray I'm lost. I hope that if you answer this question I've come up with, it'll clue me in. If we have a table that determines NPC eye color, and its entries are Blue and Brown, and we haven't yet rolled for NPC Bart, then what exists in…
  • At the point the chess players realize that a cat bumped the pawn, they have to make a decision (apply a technique) to determine how to proceed. They can rewind the game and play from the correction or they can enshrine the error as truth. That is, …
  • I do not have a workable knowledge of philosophy, so I struggle to keep up in discussions that pull it in. For example your cat comes over and bumps a pawn wrongly and neither player notices. Later, when a piece is captured by that pawn, and yet la…
  • Corrections to errors in transcribing the game state to PIS or whatever are corrected by changing the PIS, not by changing the game state. This is because the game state is always correct and true. The trueness of the game state is what makes the o…
  • Yes. When I say things like "when we retroactively correct our impression of the Game State, it was always that way in the Game State," I'm talking about the for real in the Game State aspect.
  • Paul, Adam: I just didn't want Adam to miss all the discussion about this that we already had have because I was afraid he'd paint himself into a corner where the game state can't contain errors. Which it can. Just like the SIS-4 can. (Or, I think t…
  • Sandra, I like the Blorb principles, to a point, but if I followed them rigidly, I would not enjoy running games anymore. I don't enjoy a lot of prep, memorizing stuff, or long lookups during play. I tend to replace deep prep with a rule like "cr…
  • What do you want out of this thread?
  • Or just PM me!
  • Yeah, it's a preference or agenda, not dysfunctional gaming. I think Blorb might be a Technical Agenda, but I am not sure.
  • Game State = facts that you don't know yet + facts that you do know already - facts that don't belong in here at all
  • It's not unrealized after you realize it. This seems really obvious to me, so maybe I still don't understand your question. How many hit points does Bubba have? Is the fact realized or not? Are you asking if there's a class of things that cannot …
  • Note that this formulation doesn't change if the rule said to roll the d10 instead of take the max (though the hit point value could be different).
  • There are facts that are realized and facts that are not realized. In the Game State. Realized means the players used a Technique to determine the fact and now it's in someone's PIS. [[TIME T1]] Bob: "How many hit points do I have?" DM: "Bob, you'…
  • It's real as a potential. It's not always realized yet though.
  • The demon's name is Alabaster till someone uses a technique to change it. Maybe the technique the group uses is, "No, we already used that info in-game and it's not that important, so don't retcon it." Maybe it's "Hey, that was written down, so let'…
  • Jay pointed me at these old Forge articles by Chris Lehrich, and they're amazing. Lots of relevant ideas in there. Hermeneutics! I think he spends too much time worrying about the "shared" aspect of play and the "external validation" / authority s…
  • Okay, that makes sense.
  • I went and refreshed my memory on the terms mimesis and diegesis and none of it really worked for me as a metaphor for this stuff. Maybe I just haven't spent enough time with it. Both seem to me like they should be Techniques, because they're ways…
  • Do you mean "GM/player separation" or just "special authority"?
  • I don't want to get mired down in levels of reality and stuff. That way lies danger. Is anything real? Maybe we use the word "realized" instead of "real." The MIS is realized; the Game State is not.
  • I'm a lisp patzer. Only dabbled a long time ago. I've worked with other functional languages, but haven't worked extensively in lisp. Anyway... cool! The idea of "imagination" and "imagined space" and "personal set of predicates" is a model. The blo…
  • "Layers" implies that things touch directly, no, or that they're directly comparable in some way. I'd avoid that interpretation. The Game State is this imaginary, conceptual thing. It's useful to imagine it really exists, but it's more of a potenti…
  • I wonder if prolog or some kind of ontological rules engine would be a better platform. Lisp does have prolog-style rules declarations available which is what I used except I added in a stochastic element. But an inference engine does rules-orderin…
  • @Adam_Dray , don't worry about what Paul is saying. You and I are pretty much on the same page, including re code & data. A few years ago I started a project of encoding some of the Tome of Adventure Design, and the d30 companions and the 5e DMG…
  • In (the iterations so far) the blorb model diagram I had tables of demon names, rules, maps, the Forgotten Realms wiki, the blorb principle, images, module books, natural language statements made at the table etc etc etc sorted as part of the glorac…
  • Untrue things, together with their truth value, can definitely be in the game state. Let's be clear here. When we talk about Game State, and not "offscreen canonical gamestate" or gamestate or SIS or MIS or Blorb or any of the other formulations, th…
  • 4. Facts that are written down, as a way to remember them, by a player granted social authority by the group over that area of the fictional reality. Doesn't matter where it's recorded. Doesn't matter if it's recorded at all. It matters a grea…
  • So, what is the game state? What does it include? ... 1. Facts about the fictional reality we're playing in. I have trouble with this one, because there is no reference to the real world. What does this even mean? What are we talking about? Ye…
  • One reason I have avoided using "blorg" terminology is because I don't want to step on it with my ideas. If your "offscreen canonical gamestate" / "the blorg" idea was only used for Blorg play, my Game State is used for all modes of play. It exist…
  • Er, hrm. It might be useful to say the game state contains predicates like: 1. Elminster's eyes are gray. (true) 2. Adam believes Elminster's eyes are blue. (true) But it doesn't contain: 3. Elminster's eyes are blue. (false) Adam's PIS does, t…
  • I think the PIS isn't exactly a subset, since it contains false predicates.
  • I should say that I only borrowed the term Game State from you, who talked about the offscreen canonical gamestate. I thought that formulation was magical, and kept using it. Game State is just easier to type.
  • Sandra, are you okay? Do you need any help? I'm worried about you.
  • I've run 5-8 one-shots of Dogs, but I don't count myself an expert.
  • Paul, Once Jay and I crystalize, I'll write a new post for discussion.