Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Vernon R

Comments

  • That's it for me as well kurisu. D&D seems so arbitrary with and so little to guide you on how to play.
  • I think one of the tricks with "being a fan of the pc's" is being careful not to go to far in that direction. The gm is providing the opposition for these characters, it's his job to make life difficult for them. You cant be so much a fan that you…
  • My take is it all comes back to how rpg's were invented. You have to remember that role playing games started with very few rules and the idea that the GM would rule on what is or isnt possible and what your chances were. Initially there were jus…
  • I'm not big on totally overboard zaniness and I think that concept of the dungeon as the underworld where the rules of reality dont necessarily apply can be a justification for that. The suggestions here of using weird monsters as a sort of palate…
  • It's been mentioned around here a few times but I'm looking at White Hack for my D&D needs. It's pretty simple and I think that simplicity gives it flexibility as well as range. It's got 3 broad classes and you add definition by adding backgr…
  • Interesting. From what I've seen in Eero's discussions I think starting with something like agenda and principles would be ideal but rather than specific moves it would get down to the process of negotiating the rules. Once you have those the spec…
  • The old published D&D modules tended to come down pretty solidly on the side of the characters being the good guys. At least they tended to portray the inhabitants of the dungeons as villainous. They were usually portrayed as bandits or slave…
  • I like the idea of a stable of characters, take the sting out of possible death for pc's and give them a choice for which character they want to take out adventuring at any given time. Also allows for long term affects like injuries or wizards stu…
  • Is that actually railroading though? The GM is allowed to have input into the game and if he's created a deadly threat the characters have to deal with then they are going to have to deal with it. It doesnt really become a railroad unless the GM …
  • I have to confess that I have a hard time differentiating between Illusionism and Participationism simply because it was endemic to RPG's for so long. It seemed like a natural necessity of play if you were going for any sort of "story" based play.…
  • I think as others have noted the easiest way and maybe even the only way to cheat in the *world games is to ignore the principles. Dont look at your NPC's through crosshairs, don't be a fan of the characters, dont play to find out what happens. T…
  • I very much agree with this, it's very close to what I was trying to say early in the previous thread. Groups have to find their preference and if someone wants to stare at something meaningless for hours and everybody is good with it then it isnt…
  • I dont think there is a general answer to the question here. This is something that each group of people will have to find their preference for. Whatever group of people at the table will have to feel out what works best for them. What's taking…
  • So let's say that the GM has prepped the game and given the players the choice of east or west on the road but instead of predetermining a location for the Ogres he has decided that they are chasing the party and will catch up to them whichever roa…
  • So are there any good uses of this technique? It kind of seems like we've worked around to the point where it's something that people may or may not find acceptable but everyone seems to think there are always better options?
  • I think the participationism vs illusionism talk is overwhelming the discussion at hand and likely should move to it's own thread. For the most part I agree with JD, with all the power a GM has what's the difference between changing the situation…
  • Good point Bob. So what does the GM gain by putting in such a meaningless choice? In the original example if it doesnt matter if they search the crypts or the mansion and the group goes to the wrong location what's to stop the GM from being clear…
  • The times I've found it to be a problem the most is when it becomes overt, the more it's clear that the gm is manipulating events to get a predetermined outcome. I guess that's why it's called illusionism, when the magic works and you dont see how …
  • I dont think trying to target a game for what the vague groups we've tagged as indie and trad is a worthwhile endeavor. The labels dont necessarily reflect what people want but what they do or how they play. You are much better off creating a gam…
  • I loved the story setup for Dragon Age even if the implementation didnt end up all that exciting. Magic and mages are an amazing story. The fade, a magic dream world where mages meet and gain power from demonic spiritual beings. The demons tempt …
  • I have problems with Gurps and heavier type games. For certain people the complexity of the character sheet and long lists of skills and abilities leads to players looking to their character sheets for long periods of time trying to figure out what…
  • It's interesting to note how some of these ideas conflict with each other and it's pretty much on an ideological basis of what the gm's role is. Like the idea that the GM sets challenges so they are not too hard or too easy conflicts with the c…
  • Yeah those are the interesting bits and I like how a lot of them work together. I dont know if it was explicit anywhere or if we just read it into the setting but things like the Sorcerer kings, gladiator pits, and their building projects all bei…
  • I can agree that questioning whether anything is or isnt a lie isnt really fruitful, like I pointed out above it's only a lie based on your perspective. But the thing about social contract is the GM is never going to try something that he thinks is…
  • David, That's a better wording of it then you had it earlier and it might work. It definitely takes a self-awareness and a willingness to admit that deception and self-deception is taking place among the participants. It might work amongst the r…
  • Interesting stuff. My biggest concern would be that you've loaded too much info into those background questions and there wont be much left to do once play starts. I dont see any signs of railroading as long as you havent preplanned where this is…
  • It's not the guy offering the adventure that is the railroad it's only a railroad if no matter what they decide they end up going after the dragon. Certainly there may be expectations that the gm has put forward this adventure so we should go afte…
  • Yes Gareth, that is railroading with clear tracks laid out for the players and the GM keeping them moving in the right direction. You funnelled the group right to where you wanted them to go. I agree with the troubles in discussing this style o…
  • Thanks for bringing this back. A lot of interesting topics in here although most of them are aimed at creating a whole new game, one that centers more closely on the environmental issues. My take will be more of a challenge based game and one t…
  • Sorry I dont think that's railroading, not even the old guy in the tavern asking if they want to go kill a dragon. The only way it's railroading is if it's guaranteed that the players will end up going and killing the dragon. Likewise I dont see …
  • I dont see the railroading, or if there is any it's pretty mild. When I think railroad I'm thinking longer scale than just getting one NPC killed. Did you have it planned out what would happen once Dorgan got killed? Did you know what situation it…
  • This sounds like we've moved to the creative agenda talk right? By that I mean that what's considered lying in Eero's game where playing by the mechanical rules that we've agreed on is essential because this is a challenge based game and twisting …
  • I think the trick with this style of play is that we havent really been able to put in words yet what enjoyment the player is getting out of it and that has really hampered the ability to describe the playstyle without ruffling the feathers of thos…
  • What I want out of Dark Sun begins and ends with the original box set, I have no interest in the meta-plot and the changes that developed over time. I think there is a lot in the setting as presented that works just fine in an old-school style of …
  • I think one of the big problems in traditional systems is that in creating a character you go about detailing their abilities and what the character can do as if these things matter, you make choices on what this character is like and what they are…
  • Thanks for the suggestions. On your last comment Eero, I think that campaign development is the biggest thing TSR failed to do. They published settings and adventure modules but they never really showed how to tie them together or how to make a ga…
  • Not sure if this is the best place for this but I'm thinking of using a BX hack for an upcoming project and maybe those of you in the know will have some suggestions on things that have already been done that may cut out some of the work. So what…
  • There is a difference between TV where we are an audience and RPG's where we are partaking in the creation of the story. I'm not sure you can equate the two but then again I'm not all that fond of "mystery" in RPG's. I think you can get the amazin…
  • Railroading is a difficult topic for exactly the reasons Eero laid out above. If we want to still consider the things JD mention it's easy to see those as the low hanging fruit of railroading where player choice is restricted but it's done to make…
  • I think losing the competitive nature of the club context may change some of the needs for those aspects of play but I dont think it necessarily turns them to suck. Many of those items are features rather than bugs from where I'm sitting and I thi…
  • D&D was definitely a moving target. I started playing in the late 70's / early 80's and the game was going through changes the whole time. A large part of it was TSR trying to sell more product, new books to the same old customers but even th…
  • I'm not sure if it was here but someone made the suggestion that if you wanted to play a Elven Fighter you could but you would just be a Fighter. Likewise a Dwarf Cleric would just be a cleric, etc. Heck I'm ok with changing it up and allowing a H…
  • Oz even had flying apes and it didnt seem very African.
  • When we started out back in AD&D days you created a character and the DM created the world. You made up name, rolled 6 stats, your hit points and your starting gold and you were off. No creating any back story, no friends, no family, no job …
  • Interesting, sounds like your game is very different from by the book Old School D&D at least in terms of power levels of characters unless I'm misreading something. Your 4th level cleric sounds like a much more powerful character than a typic…
  • Hmm, so what do you do in play? Secretly plot to overthrow the universe? Sounds like it would work with a fairly traditional game. Master (GM) hands out missions, apprentice (player) does them and gains in power until they are ready to challenge…
  • I'm sure it is Paul but for me it's a turn off and not just as a player but as the GM. I want dice to bring in the unexpected and make things happen but instead nothing happens in the game unless the guy running the world decides it does.
  • The problem I find with the traditional approach to gaming is that what ends up happening ususally isnt all that unexpected. Take the Joker vs. Batman example. They both roll for initiative if Batman wins he'll get to attack and try to stop the Jo…
  • Looking back at your original post I see this discussion is getting far away from what you originally wanted. We've definitely given you different perspective that maybe you can consider but it's not what you initially wanted. It looks like you re…
  • I think you are thinking to much in terms of skill checks or tests against traits, that's not what we're talking about here. Look at that scene with Batman and the Joker what are the possible outcomes? Either Batman stops the Joker or he doesnt. …