Knife and Candle, The Echo Bazaar RPG

edited October 2010 in Story Games
Over in Stuff to Watch there's a new RPG called Knife and Candle coming out for Echo Bazaar. Looks like a stellar group but I'm curious how you retain the mystery WTF of the setting in an RPG. Will the computer designers be deeply involved in fleshing out the settting or will it be DIY?

Comments

  • edited October 2010
    I am also deeply interested in anything the design team has to pitch out there...

    Biggest question: Does the base resolution / situation grabbing machine use cards?
  • edited October 2010
    I believe it's an Apocalypse World variant, unless it's drifted strongly from the noodling going on over here: http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?board=13.0
  • We'll talk more about the design soonish.

    For now, sorry about the stupid mailto: form on the website. It's the only kind I know how to do. :)
  • This is really cool. Yay groups of designers and collaboration!
  • That's really exciting. I like the EB world, and I like all of you designers. I'm pretty excited for this game.
  • Posted By: Levi KornelsenI am also deeply interested in anything the design team has to pitch out there...

    Biggest question: Does the base resolution / situation grabbing machine use cards?
    Yes, this too. Also, how much of the flavor of the online RPG are you trying to maintain?
  • edited October 2010
    Cards (opportunities) are a possibility. They're not in the design yet, but we're thinking about them. It's still very early on.

    As for flavor: Lots. Go check out the link Lukas posted to see some initial stuff.
  • Hooray for this actually being a reality! The discussion of the Knife & Candle hack in the AW forums is actually what got me to try out Echo Bazaar in the first place.

    Is it still going to be an Apocalypse World-based design, or since it's official, are you thinking of making it its own thing? I agree that a card-based opportunity-deck/oracle thing with rules for adding in new cards based on increases to your qualities and Connections would be pretty hot, either way.
  • edited October 2010
    The AW skeleton is perfect for K&F, so yeah, we're using it. Also, it will be its own game. If you follow.

    Wait 'til you hear Vincent's ideas about... uh, maybe I shouldn't say yet.

    (But, pssst, come over here behind this curtain: "Casual RPG." Mmm hmm.)
  • edited October 2010
    Posted By: John HarperCards (opportunities) are a possibility.
    Awesome. Here's hoping that something clicks there. The whole "ongoing random encounter" thing that EBZ has really struck me as something that could find a place in an RPG.
  • This. Is. Awesome.

    I got a real Stranger Things vibe (or what ST was in my own mind) from Echo Bazaar - so no better crew could have been assembled.
  • Posted By: John HarperWe'll talk more about the design soonish.

    For now, sorry about the stupid mailto: form on the website. It's the only kind I know how to do. :)
    The mailto hates me. IT HATES ME!

    But I eventually forced it to take my info. I think. :)

    I am filled with much squee at the thought of this game. You have no idea.
  • How's this coming along? Anyone know?
  • Surreptitious hints here and there that playtesting, or at least experimenting with basic concepts, is ongoing, but presumably (hopefully) they're in what Vincent would refer to as the phase in which one buckles down and designs rather than the one in which one talks about it online.
  • The prediction thread reminded me of this! Anyone know any news?
  • I think it's vaporware at the moment. IIRC Vincent made an oblique mention of it at Burning Con as an example of why not you should work with him or something.
  • The Walking Eye did an interview bit with Luke and Vincent, where the two of them basically said that the game wasn't going anywhere, and that you shouldn't put both Vincent and Harper on a project if you actually want it to get done. That said, I still have hope!
  • That doesn't mean we can't make it ourselves! I mean...

    Okay, you've got four Main Qualities which work like stats, Watchful, Dangerous, Persuasive, and Shadowy.

    You've got four "harm" tracks: Nightmares, Wounds, Scandal, and Suspicion.

    You've got lesser qualities, especially "Connected: (group name)" some of which have their own custom moves assigned.

    (EG: To call in a favor, roll +connected. On a 10+, of course, anything you ask! On a 7-9, they'll do it, but it'll cost you a bit of goodwill, take -1 to your connected quality. On a miss, they'll do it, but oh man, strings everywhere.)

    And at the start of the game, and possibly the start of each session, give players a list of locations and a pile of index cards, which can be general, location-specific, or quality-specific ("Draw a different card and shuffle this one back into the deck if the character in question has less than +1 Connected: Hell") let them write "opportunities" on them, which may or may not have custom moves attached ("When you flirt with the Affectionate Devil, roll+persuasive...") And one of your MC moves is, of course "Draw an Opportunity card for the appropriate location" and "Draw an Opportunity from the general deck."

    And after that it's just the details of whipping up the appropriate playbooks. Or rules for a lack of playbook (IE, character generation through play, much like Echo Bazaar does it, of course.)
  • I do not care what system you use. I just want this NOW
  • Wow, Ben, that sounds totally easy! You should definitely do it.
  • edited December 2011
    Posted By: John HarperWow, Ben, that soundstotally easy! You should definitely do it.
    Well actually, um, *cough*, we were thinking that, you know, sense Ben basically figured all the mechanics stuff out by himself, maybe you could, you know, whip up a nice little PDF and release if for free? Sometime in the next few days? Thanks bunches.
  • Here's your Echo Bazaar:

    Use Seventh Sea. Add goggles, caves, currency of dubious value, tweedy Brit words. Remove sea.

  • edited December 2011
    Good idea, Shreyas!

    Or you could use, like, a good game as the basis. Whatever works for you!
  • Posted By: John Harper
    Or you could use, like, agoodgame as the basis. Whatever works for you!
    Knife/Candle would be fun.
  • Harper, that wouldn't be very faithful to the source material.

  • Posted By: shreyasHarper, that wouldn't be very faithful to the source material.
    I laughed out loud, a little.

    Echo Bazaar did actually make me think a little bit about how to incorporate variable ratio schedules and various other operant conditioning techniques into a tabletop RPG design, though. I mean, it works well enough for video and social games, yeah?
  • Yeah, but it kinda makes you think about that by clearly not doing it, right? I mean, you could learn a lot more about doing it effectively from Farmville or WoW or some shit. EB is still at the 'push lever, get cookie' stage of that technology.

  • Posted By: shreyasEB is still at the 'push lever, get cookie' stage of that technology.
    I would like a game in which I can push a lever to get a cookie. Most games could be improved by adding a cookie lever.

    But seriously, Ben, why ever in the world would you want to port over just the manipulative part of social-network games? It's like you read Bogost's "Shit Crayon" essay, and thought, man, crayons are overrated.
  • I'm not saying it would be a superior game design, but it'd be an interesting one. Or you could just approach it from a different angle: what would a game designed to be played on facebook, g+, or twitter look like? Especially one that specifically took advantage of the social network(s) nature, rather than just any old PbP game?
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