Mortal Coil vs. Sorcerer

edited June 2009 in Story Games
I've got a hankering for a modern-day magic type of game, with feuding secret societies, weird apprenticeship rituals, and awful secrets Man Was Not Meant To Know. I know Sorcerer can do this. But I don't know anything about Mortal Coil.

People who have played both - what are the salient differences? What's Mortal Coil like in play, when compared to Sorcerer in play?
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Comments

  • When I played Sorc, it wasn't fun.

    Whenever I play MC, it is.
  • Caveat: I have not had a chance to play Mortal Coil but I know people who have.

    From what I can tell, Mortal Coil gives you a bit more "play" in its magic. You can do a lot more stretching, walking around and experimenting with "cool" stuff and kind of figure out where it's all heading at more leisurely pace.

    With Sorcerer you really need a right-here-right-now grounded context. This is my character and this his crisis and this is what's at stake RIGHT NOW. It doesn't have to start at 11 but you can't really build to something from vague mysteries either. Each and every scene should have some kind of emotional weight in its own right. Otherwise the mechanics simply fail to function.

    Jesse
  • I have played both.

    MC was very fun in the set up phase in which we defined the setting and what magic was. Unfortunately the rest of the game was not so much fun as we had some issues with the bidding resolution system, I understand that there is a new edition of the game that may fix some of those issues. The best part of the game is the magic fact list, which work like aspects from FATE (spend point get plus 2 even) but have a price or exception and they are made through play. The consensus after the game would be to just play FATE next time with the magic list and pitch session from MC.

    Sorcerer has been a blast every time I play it, and in comparison to the MC what Jesse said is dead one, there is a sense of consequence and urgency in Sorcerer when you make choices in a conflict, I think the set up and grid for Sorcerer does a better job of creating a situation that maters to the characters and Humanity is a great tool for saying this game is about X.

    - Colin
  • Sorcerer scares me. I haven't tried it. (which, i suppose, means i shouldn't be responding, but i don't care)
    I tried Mortal Coil and we had a lot of fun with the world creation. Once we got into actual play we stumbled over the mechanics quite a bit and ended up quitting after like 1 session. :( I'm looking forward to maybe picking up the revised edition of it because I've been led to understand it will explain the mechanics better, and I suspect our problems with the mechanics had to do with not really using them as they were meant to be used.
  • Shreyas, that's cool - would you say the difference, for you, is like what other people in the thread have said so far? It sounds like Mortal Coil has a more relaxed pace with more room for collaboration on a whole lot of "trad GM stuff" like color...? Did you have trouble with the resolution system?
  • edited June 2009
    To follow up a bit on what Jesse said I would say the primary difference between the games is that Sorceror is a game that requires & rewards focus in terms of both its mechanics and in terms of the role magic plays in the game. In Sorceror the way magic works tends to be very focused, and the role sorcery plays in the overall story is built into the game from the outset -- its relationship to Humanity is built in to the mechanics.

    Mortal Coil is very open-ended, and based on my limited play I feel like its systems interact in much more straightforward ways, and sometimes not at all. The Magic facts system is basically completely separable from the rest of the game, as are Passions, and (to my endless chagrin) the actual mechanical resolution system is kind of meh. (The new edition definitely explains it better but at least in my case that just meant that now I was quite sure I wanted to replace it with something else, instead of wondering if maybe I had missed something awesome.)

    One thing MC will support more easily is a large variety in types and schools of magic -- and adaptability in terms of what magic does and how it works, as the game progresses. Magic can mean very different things for different characters. Sorceror really needs a lot of prep to hit the ground running, and that includes locking down the basic shape & limitations of magic.
  • James, uh, Sorc just turns to ashes in my mouth. There's no feeling of discovery in play; the magic systems are gawky and overly jointed like a teenage boy who's just hit his growth spurt and hasn't figured how long his new bones are yet. It's not really a game *about* magic; it's a game about emotionally squalid people doing emotionally squalid things. I find it to be disgust-porn in the same way Grey Ranks is suffering-porn.

    Mortal Coil is capable of supporting disgusting people, but it's also capable of supporting basically okay people, and as an engine for exploring an interesting and unfamiliar world it's hands-down better. I've never come across a game that does a better job of creating a consistent, scared vision of a magical world.
  • I'm serious, but, considered Unknown Armies? It's the perfect game in my mind for what you said you are looking for.
  • Posted By: Thunder_GodI'm serious, but, considered Unknown Armies? It's the perfect game in my mind for what you said you are looking for.
    And as a bonus, it's totally awesome. I suppose it's possible it has more crunch than you want, though, James. Certainly it has more than Sorcerer or Mortal Coil.
  • edited June 2009
    Posted By: shreyasJames, uh, Sorc just turns to ashes in my mouth. There's no feeling of discovery in play; the magic systems are gawky and overly jointed like a teenage boy who's just hit his growth spurt and hasn't figured how long his new bones are yet. It's not really a game *about* magic; it's a game about emotionally squalid people doing emotionally squalid things. I find it to be disgust-porn . . . .
    I am laughing because I think this is the first time in five years that I entirely agree with you. I'd phrase it that Sorcerer doesn't have a magic system at all really, and that while it (often) is disgust-porn, it's disgust-porn-with-a-purpose. It couldn't do what it sets out to do unless it was disgust-porn.
    Mortal Coil is capable of supporting disgusting people, but it's also capable of supporting basically okay people, and as an engine for exploring an interesting and unfamiliar world it's hands-down better. I've never come across a game that does a better job of creating a consistent, scared vision of a magical world.
    Can someone (not necessarily Shreyas) give me an example of some really tight Mortal Coil AP? Part of what I'm trying to figure out is that, while I have a very good grasp on the type of questions that Sorcerer is trying to address, I'm not sure what Mortal Coil is all about, thematically.
  • Posted By: James_Nostack
    Can someone...give me an example of some really tight Mortal Coil AP? Part of what I'm trying to figure out is that, while I have a very good grasp on the type of questions that Sorcerer is trying to address, I'm not sure what Mortal Coil is all about, thematically.
    James, while not AP and by no means short I have posted two Journal entries from our Mortal Coil Campaign " The Enchanted Woods" that we played, July 2008.

    Mortal Coil makes a different kind of fiction at the table, compared to Sorcerer. In all for the three games of Mortal Coil that I have played, the people at the table have to find a situation that they want to explore.. And then make passions that push in interesting directions. That is to say build tension with in the group of players much like Burning Wheel does with believes. Then see where you go.. My games of MC have always had an element of exploration in them.
  • Here's a collection of APs and here's another (there is some overlap).
  • edited June 2009
    One thing about magic in Sorcerer that I haven't seen people talk about is that it's powers are still pretty hit-or-miss. One of my players was frustrated that he was supposed to be the big badass (after all, the question is what you do with your extraordinary power once you have it), but when his demon tried to use its lethal special damage, half the time it just didn't do anything due to the dice rolls. That was, admittedly, in part because I rolled consistently high as the GM. But still, if I was going to make a game like Sorcerer, I'd make sure the demonic powers, at least when used against mortals, were always impactful. (In fact, right after reading Sorcerer, I made this little game called torn where, when you used magic, you just tossed out the regular resolution system--you simply got what you wanted--but you also drew cards to figure out who and what was randomly hurt, killed or destroyed as a side effect of the magic, with anyone being physically and emotionally close to you being potential targets).

    From what I gather of Mortal Coil, if you bid enough, you get your way, so the random whiff factor shouldn't be a problem there.
  • I would chime in to indicate that Mortal Coil is more flexible, in that the magic in Mortal Coil has a cost, but if the group is not interested in a world where magic is horrendously corrosive to your soul, you don't remove the driving engine of the game, as you do if you pick a more casual Humanity/Demon combo in Sorcerer.

    Not that this is what the OP says he wants but there it is.
  • Posted By: James_Nostack
    I am laughing because I think this is the first time in five years that I entirely agree with you. I'd phrase it that Sorcerer doesn't have a magic system at all really, and that while it (often) is disgust-porn, it's disgust-porn-with-a-purpose. It couldn't do what it sets out to dounlessit was disgust-porn.
    Hmmm.... This makes me wonder what you guys would think of the Children and Fairies setup I'm working on for Sorcerer.

    Jesse
  • On the other hand, I like the way it all works in Sorcerer & Sword, which to me feels more coherent. Only a couple of sessions under my belt there, but it seemed fine.
  • I'm a bit late to the party, but I'll just put my angle on things.

    Sorceror has a more traditional feel to it, but its magic system is quite limiting. Not to the extent of being useless, but you're unlikely to get any of the huge, sparkly, destroy-the-world type spells out of it. It's more your grim-and-gritty horror than your urban fantasy. Mortal Coil will let you do more or less anything with its magic system, but is extremely diffuse in its nature and could cause problems with people trying to do too much with magic, or take some control away from the GM. That's not a criticism, it's what the game is meant to do. It all depends if you want to approach it from the angle of a traditional RPG or from something more akin to a group storytelling session. Also bear in mind that Mortal Coil is diceless which a lot of people aren't fond of.

    A quick disclaimer though, my version of Mortal Coil is the pre-revision one. I don't know what changes and additions have been made to the revised version.

    As a third alternative, have you thought of adapting the PDQ system? Questers of the Middle Realms puts forward a pretty decent magic system for it, and there's also the Zorceror of Zo which may have some useful magic tips.

    -Ash
  • Posted By: DestriarchIt's more your grim-and-gritty horror than your urban fantasy.
    Actually, that is an EXCELLENT distinction. Sorcerer is not a fantasy game. It's a horror game. Even in Sorcerer & Sword Ron refers to the source material as "adventurous horror stories."

    So yeah, if you want more of an Urban Fantasy feel go Mortal Coil.
    If you want more of a horror story (even an adventurous street horror story) go Sorcerer.

    Jesse
  • edited June 2009
    The fun I've found from Sorcerer is "People are doing emotionally squalid things -for a good reason-."

    The not fun I've found from Sorcerer is "People are doing emotionally squalid things because they're emotionally squalid."

    Then fun of I've found from Mortal Coil is "There's -this- magical bit in the setting, and it has -this- effect and -this- consequence of using it that fucks your shit up."

    The not fun I've found from Mortal Coil is "People try to stop the magic creation system from creating potent effects in an effort to not get their shit fucked up."
  • Nobody is forced to do emotionally squalid things in Sorcerer, just as nobody has to shoot people in the face in DitV.
  • I'd like to disagree with the emotionally squalid comment as well. Sorcerer doesn't have to be about that... There just has to be a tension between what the player wants and what the demon wants. It doesn't mean it has to be a soul sucking exercise.

    I wrote Nausicaa up as a Sorcerer setting. The tension there is about doing the right thing, even if burdensome. Its difficult to show compassion in a time of war and misery and that is where the conflicts arise, just as in the manga.

    Likewise, I wrote up a Sensei game based on 40k, where the players are Sorcerers battling against the Imperium, sort of a rebel with a cause where the players are in conflict with a morally bankrupt Imperium led by its corpse Emperor who incidentally, happens to be their father.
  • I don't think anyone said Sorcerer had to be emotionally squalid, just that it was more of a danger to Sorcerer games than it was to Mortal Coil. Sorcerer is not so far removed from Killing Puppies for Satan being about ones loss of humanity.
  • What Shreyas said about Sorcerer was this:
    Posted By: shreyasit's a game about emotionally squalid people doing emotionally squalid things.
    Which is saying the game has to be about emotionally squalid characters, since he's saying that's what the game is.

    This is absurd for a very simple technical reason:

    There is a mechanic in Sorcerer called Humanity. The group defines what this vital, thematic element of positive definition of human behavior for the game. Questions of morality and behavior will circle this thematic question. (There's nothing strange or odd or over-intellectual about this in terms of story construction -- which is Sorcerer's goal. I just watched the first season of HBO's ROME. Every scene was about the thematic question of "Loyalty." Finding a thematic question helps a story hang together.)

    In scenes, the characters will be faced with choices that will ask, in one way or another, will you be Human or -- not Human. Not every scene, and it won't occur in such a way as to sound like a law school ethics class exercise. But it will be there, showing up as such questions do in solid stories one finds on TV or Films. When it happens, the players will make a roll: A Humanity Gain roll if they make a choice that involves being Human, and a Humanity Loss roll if they do something that goes against the definition of Humanity.

    As the Gain or Loss rolls are made, the characters Humanity rating, on a scale of 0-10 will rise or fall. The more Human things the character does, the higher the the Humanity. The more not Human things, the lower. If Humanity reaches 0 then the character has lost all Humanity. He or she is now, for all purposes, inhuman. The player loses the character and hands him over to the GM, as such a character is beyond the pale, and is no longer worthy of being a protagonist. A villain, yes. But that's it.

    If Sorcerer is a game about emotionally squalid people doing emotionally squalid things, then by definition the Humanity of the characters are going to drive down to zero, and fast. Which means the game is about handing your character sheet over to the GM. Which it isn't. So this is nonsense.

    I'm not saying people don't play this way. I've read accounts of this. I even played this way in my first game (though the GM and I used a rule in Sorcerer's Soul to re-write the character sheet and let me have the sheet back. My character, driven mad by his actions, went on a path of redemption to make good on what he had done in the past.)

    I am saying that some stories offer characters bad choices to make, and sometimes characters make those bad choices. Some of my favorite shows do this: Battlestar Galactica, Rome, Dexter, Deadwood, Rescue Me, Breaking Bad, Lost. Certainly my favorite plays do this: Shakespeare and the Greek tragedies. Some people might consider the characters in these stories emotionally squalid, I suppose. In my observations of live, they are simply very human.

    To assume that a game where characters are given free range on a moral scale is to create a game where the characters will be emotionally squalid is certainly a conclusion people jump to. But it has nothing to do with the game itself. But it is a failure, in my view, of both creative imagination and moral imagination. The Sorcerer rules, as written, make it clear that when you create a Player Character it better be someone you want to hang out with. It isn't Kill Puppies for Satan at all -- and to assume it is, that one should be making, by definition, emotionally squalid characters out of the gate, is wrong.

    Yes. I said wrong. As in, sex can be done wrong. Like trying to insert a penis in the ear. That kind of wrong. When I see people like Shreyas stating how he played the game wrong, it always makes me sad for the same reason I don't like people shifting gears at the wrong time when driving.

    Lore, in Sorcerer, is an understanding of how to use tools called Demons. And Demons help one get things done. Like a gun can help you get things done. And so can Hannibal Lector. Or the Ring of Power. Or Dexter's "Dark Passenger."

    Sorcerer says: "You have a character who needs to get something done so badly that he or she willing to pick up a gun -- and even use it -- to get that thing done. But it's not just a matter of who might get hurt when you use the gun -- though that matters -- but who'll you might become by the time you finally put that gun back down." By definition you've created a character who is so driven to get something done, and the stakes are so high, that picking up a gun makes sense.

    I don't find anything emotionally squalid about a soldier, or Clarice, of Frodo, or Dexter -- who all interact with creatures and things one might assume to be Demons if translated to Sorcerer. I do find them desperate to get something done and grabbing at a tool that puts their humanity at risk. That is what Sorcerer is about.

    That might not be what someone wants to play. It certainly seems different than the fun of Mortal Coil. But the game certainly has no quality of moral squalidness as a definition of what the game is about built into it. It's actually an incredibly moral game. But that, thankfully, is usually buried under all the color, passion, cool moments, terrifying moments, funny moments, emotional moments and so on that are produced when I get to play it.
  • Just to get a bit more concrete with that, a girl I played Sorcerer with was so sweet in play I almost fell in love with her.
  • Heh, I think the point was about characters, not players? Or you fell in love with a character?
  • edited June 2009
    It's always about the players, man. It was the way she played the chr.
  • An interesting thing about Sorcerer that isn't dealt with much in many of the settings so far but is mentioned in Sorcerer & Soul (I think) was that there is a consequence and drama for falling to 0 Humanity but nothing for hitting 10 (to pick a nice round number out of a hat).

    Because of this lack of rules-based consequences for reaching a high humanity, it isn't highlighted in folks' minds because they get caught in their 0 Humanity means that the world ends/the PC leaves player control/the character loses everything and is reborn in the gutter/etc. I think if there was a setting where hitting 10 Humanity meant the character became an angel or something people would realize that gaining Humanity can be just as interesting as losing it and is just as viable an alternative.

    There is also this feeling in Sorcerer that you have summoned a demon and are therefor a terrible demon-cavorting bastard but there are descriptors in many settings where this is not necessary.

    So, bringing this back around from defending Sorcerer from its detractors and comparing it to Mortal Coil.

    I think Mortal Coil gives much more setting authorship to the players, with different chips allowing for players to contribute setting elements and magic rules.

    Sorcerer is more about making a character and seeing how far the game's going's on will push them, as the game states, how far will they go to get what they want. Mortal Coil has much more room for changing the character is very concrete ways based on passions going up and down and being destroyed or born through conflict.

    Mortal Coil and Sorcerer both allow for player drive setting creation but Mortal Coil has more concrete steps and procedures.

    In my experiences, Sorcerer leads to more surprising play, the conflict resolution is more shocking and intense than Mortal Coil's chips.

    I like both a whole lot.
  • Actually I think Shreyas's comments are pretty much accurate, at least for casual exposure to the game and the casual nature of the response he gave.

    Sorcerers begin the game having done wrong things for however your group has defined "wrong." There is a phase of char-gen in the core rules that briefly describes making the character worthy of being the hero of a movie--but it's a brief bit of kinda fluffy text and easily overlooked. (It's a key component of the design, but like many other aspects of Sorcerer's design it could really stand to be made more explicit.) Sorcerers have to be lousy human beings in some lights, because they begin play having already risked their Humanity at least once through binding the demon. Even if, in the fiction, it's plausible that the character has a demon "by accident," mechanically there's still opprobrium attached to the character.

    And while it's certainly possible to play a noble sorcerer, the GM is going to be putting a lot of pressure on the player to commit further sins and summon more demons. Even if the player resists these temptations, it doesn't change the fact that his or her magical powers all involve knowledge and manipulation of wrongfulness / sin / squalor, whatever you want to call it.

    The fact that the the sorcerers and their actions are ethically dubious is sort of the point of the game.

    I don't think Shreyas's reaction was 100% accurate in describing sorcerer for all players everywhere, but I can certainly see how a person might get that impression.
  • the GM is going to be putting a lot of pressure on the player to commit further sins and summon more demons.

    Yeah, basically. The whole premise of the game is disgusting to me.

  • edited June 2009
    Posted By: shreyasYeah, basically. The whole premise of the game is disgusting to me.
    Yes. We know.


    James,
    Posted By: James_NostackSorcerers have to be lousy human beings in some lights, because they begin play having already risked their Humanity
    This is pretty much true for any character in any story that holds the interest of any person over the age of 12. As for real life people, I'll only speak for myself, but I know myself pretty well and by the standards I try to live by I know I've failed on more than one occasion. I'm assuming you'd have to hold me beyond the pale as well.
    Posted By: James_NostackThe fact that the the sorcerers and their actions are ethically dubious is sort of the point of the game.
    I know you see the game this way. But no. This is wrong. It lets you see the game Shreyas' view. But it simply is inaccurate. It's that the characters are conflicted - not dubious. Like any character in Shakespeare's tragedies and histories, the Greek tragedies, most cable TV fare, and any movie worth watching a second time. Indiana Jones leaves the woman he loves tied up in a Nazi tent because he covets ancient artifacts. Sheriff Brody in JAWS turns a blind eye to political corruption to keep his new job. Even in these simple popcorn movies the character do the wrong things.

    The GM doesn't put pressure on the PCs to make them do anything. He puts pressure on them to give the Players opportunities to have their PCs make choices. This what what a writer does when he writes a script -- he provides these opportunities for the character to make choices and reveal who they are. This is what makes stories work.

    I understand this is how you see the game. I wouldn't want to play that either.
  • Folks, there was a fellow I talked to on another forum who was convinced that DitV was about being the Mormon Taliban. Can we explain this? Sure, these games are Rorschach tests. You see in them what you bring to them.
  • FAVORITE THREAD EVER

  • Posted By: droogFolks, there was a fellow I talked to on another forum who was convinced that DitV was about being the Mormon Taliban.
    I had a friend tell me the same thing. But he was also angry everyone had to play the same "class."
  • Well, as long as we're entertaining Clinton, I consider the whole thing a win.
  • Posted By: jenskotBut he was also angry everyone had to play the same "class."
    oh man. I had friends look at the game and give the same feedback.
  • That is among the shortcomings of Dogs, yeah.

  • Posted By: jenskot
    I had a friend tell me the same thing. But he was also angry everyone had to play the same "class."
    Guess he wouldn't be keen on Pendragon either.
  • Posted By: JuddThere is also this feeling in Sorcerer that you have summoned a demon and are therefor a terrible demon-cavorting bastard but there are descriptors in many settings where this is not necessary.
    You're right of course, but biblically this would be rather nonsensical since Solomon himself summoned and controlled a vast array of 'spirits', many of which were later absorbed into demonological lore, and yet is still hailed as a great, wise and noble king. Mind you, he did later bind them all up in a brass vessel and throw them into the sea. Or was it a lake? I think it was a lake... The 72 Spirits of Solomon are a popular subject of Goethic texts and other similar grimoire traditions.

    -Ash
  • The Bible is a great example text to prove CK's point. Talk about characters that have are conflicted and do "wrong things." Sacrificing your first born, Tricking your father into giving you your brother's birthright, heck, killing your brother and leaving him bleeding out into the earth, smashing in the heads of enfants...pretty squalid stuff. Also, a rich and complex narrative.
  • Posted By: noclueThe Bible is a great example text to prove CK's point.
    Well, with the possible exception that the Bible, while not always entirely clear in terms of what is right and what is wrong, invariably sets out to punish those who wilfully choose the latter. Players in Sorceror are as likely to get away with it if they're careful. Again though, this is all assuming that the players do feel immorrally obligated by their demons to be bastards. I haven't played Sorceror much, but I have a demon-based game of my own that I have played and I run it to the following ethic: it is the job of the demon to tempt its sorceror with unholy power and try and get him to do morally questionable things. It is the job of the sorceror to avoid temptation whilst manipulating his demon into such a position as he's getting the unholy power anyway without having to become a bastard himself. The challenge, and indeed the focus in my opinion, is in this ballancing act.

    -Ash
  • Ashok, here's a question, if it's "Unholy power", then isn't making use of it morally questionable in and of itself?
  • Reading this forum I got interested in Mortal Coil, which I've never really known much about.

    I checked out the preview, and it was interesting, but I hit one of the illustrations, and I'm like, "the way they talked about it in the Sorcerer & Mortal Coil thread, I wasn't really expecting a bloody, possibly eyeless woman standing over a dead baby in a sinkful of blood in a public restroom. This is what I'm supposed to be playing cause Sorcerer is too squalid?"
  • Posted By: edheilI wasn't really expecting a bloody, possibly eyeless woman standing over a dead baby in a sinkful of blood in a public restroom
    To say nothing of the undead Sausage-fest later on... I love the Art in that game, but it does make a disturbing impact.

    I think the issue was the theme of Sorcerer involves constant and sustained transgression as part of its theme. Even Ron, in his introduction to the game, says it should scare you. So Sheryas, etc are just taking him up on it. That being said, some people don't like haunted houses...
  • Posted By: edheilI wasn't really expecting a bloody, possibly eyeless woman standing over a dead baby in a sinkful of blood in a public restroom. This is what I'm supposed to be playing cause Sorcerer is too squalid?"
    And this is why you should never look at gaming art ever, and no gaming book should have art in it, the end. Also.
  • Posted By: edheilI checked out the preview, and it was interesting, but I hit one of the illustrations, and I'm like, "the way they talked about it in the Sorcerer & Mortal Coil thread, I wasn't really expecting a bloody, possibly eyeless woman standing over a dead baby in a sinkful of blood in a public restroom.
    The original pre-revision rulebook had a bloke standing around totally nekkid, tackle-out as well. The thing about Mortal Coil is the images are really the only setting assistance you'll get. Sorceror might not be entirely 'what you bring to the table' but Mortal Coil is pretty much nothing but. Unless the revision added a setting that I'm not aware of, so please somebody correct me if I'm wrong as I've not read the revised version.
    Posted By: Thunder_GodAshok, here's a question, if it's "Unholy power", then isn't making use of it morally questionable in and of itself?
    Only if you accept that using unholy power for good purposes is impossible. I personally do not really believe there is such a thing as 'unholy' power. I don't really believe in good and evil either, but if there is a good and an evil then it is in how the individual chooses to use his power, not some kind of bizarre 'power flavour' system. If I pray to god to have you assassinated, I'm being evil. If I con the devil into saving your life, I'm being good. I've heard the maxim 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions' sure, but it's the people who have the bad intentions that get through the door when they arrive.

    -Ash
  • A friend tipped me off about this thread. Thanks for discussing my work! The La Llorona and Water Spirit pieces are definitely some of my proudest moments in gaming art. Whether it's positive or negative, I'm glad to hear they have made an impact.
  • Huh. Crazy. Until this thread I hadn't realized the revised Mortal Coil was out. Is the art the same? I love the art in that book, though I do admit it... definitely creates a certain feel that isn't actually necessary for the game itself.
    Everyone keeps chiming in to say that they've seen the original book but not the revised. Has anyone out there read the revised? Like I said earlier in the thread, I had some, well, issues with the system of the game, but it always seemed promising to me, and I'd consider picking up a copy or a pdf of the revised if it was more clear on system procedures.
  • I may be mistaken as I haven't seen it myself, but I believe the only difference in art is the addition of two new illustrations. I hear the layout is very different as well.
  • Mortal Coil doesn't really have color of its own because the tone of the game is put together by the players in the theme document. It can go from Harry Potter to Vampire the Masquerade to Sandman to Buffy without too much blinking.
  • My only problem with the art on page 45 is that it's not anatomically accurate: let me tell you, when you're standing mid-calf in spooky Cthulhu guts which are spiraling down an oubliette, there is significant shrinkage.
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