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Well, Mike, the point is that they aren't, really, not in conversations that are trying to produce something else. It's disruptive and derailing to have such conversations together in the same thread.
I think they are certainly tolerated and I'd find it unacceptable if they were not, but there is a clear distinction between shop talk and education and I don't know a single place where they willingly intersect. I don't think that's accidental.
Separating education and production makes each one more useful.
As a postscript I also want to express my frustration about what I perceive as a sense of entitlement to mentorship on the part of some members of the population. I dont feel like I was ever mentored in a substantial way through direct interaction; I cobbled together an understanding by leaping in and reading and applying my critical faculties. No one taught me.
And yet, the community at large and myself as a member of it are taken to task for not providing that mentorship and education. Haphazard and confusing threads appear where people seeking education don't get it.
Meanwhile, there are multiple people who are offering to talk people through this material, or who are composing lessons, in measured and accessible way, and they are not getting the credit and attention that they deserve.
Please, let the teachers teach, and let the others do their thing, so that we can bring new people into the discussion without disupting that discussion.
Posted By: Matt_SnyderAndy, I just don't see how that in any way refutes anything I'm saying at all. "Brain damage" are still just words. People either get mad at them or not. The words don't do a thing. Which is what I said.
Posted By: jhkimI had considered it my responsibility to make my meaning understood to the other people here. If I used jargon, I considered it my responsibility to at least give a measured and accessible source for the meaning.
Posted By: Joshua BishopRobyPosted By: jhkimI had considered it my responsibility to make my meaning understood to the other people here. If I used jargon, I considered it my responsibility to at least give a measured and accessible source for the meaning.
Posted By: James_Nostackit sounds like the worst thing that's happened to people is that they end up viewing users of Forge Language with distaste. But I haven't heard anything that doesn't sound like, say, at most 15 minutes on the Internet couldn't fix. How severe an obstacle this is to communication is ultimately a value judgment.
James, good job trying to close the thread just when people are starting to converse with one another and find some common ground from which we can produce something positive.
John, maybe we can talk about helping teachers and students find each other? I think you're saying something important about learning and teaching styles; maybe it's the case that there are fewer teaching styles available than potential learners need to make their learning experience as smooth as it could be.
Posted By: John HarperRemi, for what it's worth, I had the exact same reaction to Kynn's post that you did. Asking a question that is answered immediately by Google (the #1 result, no less) seemed like baiting to me. I did not think you were out of line.
Posted By: misubaTelling people with honest questions to make their questions invisible to others, lest they harsh the mellow, is maybe not the best way to make them feel that questions are welcomed by the community. Just sayin.
Posted By: RemiGoat throw (Throw the Goat) is not a jargon term, it is vocabulary from popular culture, and is pretty well-known. A simple google search on 'goat throw' reveals its meaning, although I think the gist is easily gathered from context.
Posted By: KynnAlso, I asked in whispers what"Brain damage"refers to. I don't know, but it seems others do, and I am missing some context there.
Posted By: Doyce"If you play that way, why don't you just masturbate and publish Mary Jane fiction and quite wasting time playing RPGs?"
My favorite variation is to use -sue portmanteau names to indicate that a character is a Mary Sue, e.g. Autosue for Autochthon in Exalted (gah.).
Posted By: DoyceToday, I posted a link to Vincent's posts about the theory stuff, saying "this is neat and clear and concise," and people read 'A little thing about Suspense and Death' and came back to me and said "If you play that way, why don't you just masturbate and publish Mary Jane fiction and quite wasting time playing RPGs?"
Posted By: DoycePosted By: KynnAlso, I asked in whispers what"Brain damage"refers to. I don't know, but it seems others do, and I am missing some context there.
Posted By: Sean MusgraveHow forge terminolgy ruined my life:Girlfriend: What's this Trollbabe?Me: Its uhm, a roleplaying game.Girlfriend: it looks dumb. You mean like White wolf?Me: Well, not really.Girlfriend: I think White Wolf is the best. Why make another game?Me: Well, if you like, played roleplaying games, you'd know they're for different things. Like, this game might be called, narrativist.Girlfriend: What? Narrativist? Does that mean you think you're smarter than me?Me: Not exactly.Girlfriend: You think you're smarter than me. You look down on me.Me: Its just a term.*She throws cold water on me*
Posted By: DoyceApologies -- I somehow missed the post where the thread had been closed. My bad.
Andy has his own standards I'm sure, and they may not include enforcing thread shut downs by the originators. But I don't think he has any standard that says that we can't uphold the higher standard if we wish. I'll stand corrected by Andy if I'm wrong about this.