Eclipse World ?

edited June 2014 in Story Games
Crossposting from here.

Have anyone tried this ?

Im coming to Eclipse Phase just now, and think it would give a very interesting milieu for a *world hack. Im surprised I didnt find any previous attempt around the net. One thing that got me excited to try it was this critique I saw in another forum, from the user FrankTrollman:
The primary thing that got missed [In Eclipse Phase] is that people still have “knowledge” and “language” skills and such. That's throwback thinking. Consider: you walk into a new region that is completely cut off from the outside worlds. Maybe your new region is a slowship to Pluto or is an isolated chamber that a fringe group is using to store their apocalyptic plot. Whatever. The point is, that you personally carry IMDB, all of Wikipedia, the Library of Congress, TV Tropes, PubMed, IUPAC, and a realtime translation service to every known language in the solar system with you. Even without the ability to harvest any meaningful data from the region around you, you still just ambiently have more information at your fingertips than you could actually think about in a thousand years. People shouldn't be “knowing” facts, they should be “finding” and “contextualizing” facts. The very way these people interact with the idea of knowledge is completely alien to modern human thought – and it's really exciting. But the skills just don't match up with that reality. The sample characters “know” things like Academics: Economics and Laguage: Mandarin, and that's just completely fucking irrelevant to people who carry the entire internet in an effectively instantaneously searchable format in their belt buckle or even their actual bones.
This just screams the "Open your Mind" move for me, only instead of the Maelstron, its opening to the Mesh (or perhaps more accurately, to your Muse).

So, what do you think, Guys ?

Comments

  • edited June 2014
    Totally go for it! I loved the Eclipse setting, but it would deffinitely take an AW hack of it for me to run this game.

    Ed. I'd go for the Ego & Morph subsumed playbooks separated by ideology, seems easier to explain to the players.
  • By the way, here is a resume of what we came up ideas-wise. Feel free to contribute any way you think appropriate!

    So far we get 3 options for the concept of player identity. Notice how they follow a natural scale of Fidelity X Usefulness, where the first one seems the most accurate depiction of the original material (but also the more complex), while the last one is the most simple and gameable implementation, and the middle one strikes a balance between them:

    1. Ego and Morph as separated playbooks, where Ego is permanent (AKA the char true Identity) and Morph can change at will. Ego could be based on occupational archetypes ( The Ego Hunter, The Scavenger, The Escort, The Smuggler, etc) or on ideology (The Extropian, The Barsoomian, The Argonaut, etc). Both Egos and Morphs playbooks would present a set of moves for players to take, but these should be kept to a minimum (5 for Egos and 3 for Morphs ?) for keeping things simple, otherwise you risk too much rules-bloat/tracking.

    2. Ego and Morph subsumed into single-concept/identity playbooks (the Rhyzome, the Bodybuilder, the Ghost, etc [look here] ). Morphs would work as gear, having minor or major importance depending on how central they are to the concept. Ie: if its not important for a given Idendity, list it as plain gear functioning through Tags (+Genefix, +Vac support, etc). If its important make it like the Driver´s Car or Hardholder´s Hold full of different aspects and upgradeable options.

    3. Morph-based, where playbooks represent different Morphs that you can change at will, while Ego are players own "memories and experience" and dont have a mechanical counterpart.


    Other than that, we get three important concepts to implement:

    1) Ideologies;
    2) Rep and Social Networks;
    3) Instant acessing your Muse for finding and contextualizing any information in the universe on the spot (which I think fits nicely as an adaptation of the "Open you Mind" move)

    Thoughts ?
  • Also, replace Rep and Social Networks into the strings mechanics. Yes, that means you could have a string to a Corporation or other front too, not only to individuals.
  • Thats exactly what I had in mind, Monk! How do strings work ? I heard Monsterhearts use them, but never read it.
  • edited June 2014
    I have a finished set of sheets/basic rules for eclipse world, found here. Big change is using skills rather than attributes for the main rolls, and descriptive traits for morph augments, but it's a work in progress. It's one of my favorite games/settings but can't stand the base EP rules.

    Ego:
    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwKVEg-l1p9SVmhyTTFqMVpzaTQ/edit?usp=docslist_api
    Morph:
    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwKVEg-l1p9SU2NVM0ZzYWRCOFU/edit?usp=docslist_api
  • This looks promising! I too love the EP setting but not the rules; we're currently playing it with FATE and that works well.

    I like separating Ego and Morph. Have you thought about making Ego the core stat distribution and then making Morphs each have their own playbook? It'd be like when a PC swaps playbooks in AW, but instead of an advance it's just something you do. So like Morphs have a list of Moves, but you've always got the same Stat array. Some Egos are just better suited to certain Morphs this way.

    Maybe a combat Morph is all "When you engage in bloody up-close fighting, take +1 to the roll." Stuff like that.
  • Loved your idea, Scrape. It achieves a similar end result as mine but in a more simple way. What other color/efemera would you add to the Ego besides stats? I thought about adding "ideology" as options that could give aditional advantages, but I dont know how to that. Or perhaps having the different Reps attached to Ego would be enough already.

    Fenarisk, thanks for sharing. It seems separating Ego and Morph is an obvious move. I liked your Call a Favor move. I wouldnt go in the direction of making it skills-based though, but then Im a more minimalist type of guy.

    Oh, and how would you setup the Stats and main Moves ?

  • Personally I haven't yet figured out the point distribution for skills and rep, I kept skills rather than attributes because I like the specificity characters can have, and that the focus really is more on the ego. Main move is basically take a risk on mine since it's base more on World of Dungeons. I originally had a morph sheet for every single morph but it got too bland/dizzying doing it that way rather than using the EP books for perks and items and augments in a PbtA system.
  • What do you guys think of these archetypes ? (Im assuming occupation-focused, party-utility playbooks)

    The Lost (Mind subversion, Psi)
    The Icon (Social subversion, Rep, Favours, Connections)
    The Weaver (Mesh subversion, Hacking)
    The Doll (Sexual subversion, Escorting, Bodyguarding)
    The Ghost (Sensors subversion, Infiltration, ID Forging)
    The Fabber (Machine subversion, Gadgets nanofabbing)
    The Scavenger (Enviro Subversion, Scavenging, Survival)
    The Mercenary (Combat, Hardness)
    The Ego Hunter (Tracking, Ego identifying)

    Thoughts ?
  • AW is not a good fit for the "standard" eclipse phase game, which is more mission-based and problem-solving focused. EP doesn't really fit the "we're the major players of the setting pursuing our own agenda" AW model well at all. If you're looking for a lighter thing which might work, I think FATE might be good - the aspects are broad enough that you can put some of the really outre stuff just in a sentence or two.
  • As it happens, there's a FATE game called Nova Praxis that is transhumanist sci-fi with a startling resemblance to Eclipse Phase. It's based on Strands of Fate which is pretty crunchy for a Fate game, but I'm currently running a Fate game that steals liberally from Nova Praxis and just avoids the crunchier combat rules.

    Also, what JDCorley says is probably correct, but if you want your PCs to be major players in the setting then you can make it work, I bet.
  • As an aside, there's an actual official FATE conversion for Eclipse Phase coming out which I'm really looking forward to, but until then, yeah, there's always Nova Praxis. I don't think you have even have to be major players for the AW engine to work fine though.
  • edited June 2014
    Corley, valid point. Being a players-driving, radical sandboxer kind of player though, I always visualized my EP games more as "transhuman freelancers doing whatever they want for profit, rep and fun" than CoC-like "investigators trying to unravel the GMs plot of the week".

    I wouldnt mind the eventual Firewall/Ozma/whatever mission job here and there (not too different from the Turncoat playbook built-in spying in my mind), but the game focus would firmly be AW-like for me, with players organizing into Titanian salvage and rescue crews one night and Extropian nightclub enforcers in the other, while building enough Rep for finishing their private habitat on a Saturn moon with their own fringe society model and launching their own anti-Jovian galactic memetic campaign. Or whatever.

    And this screams AW for me. ;-)
  • If it works for you, go for it. But even that doesn't sound like AW to me (no decisionmaking under scarcity that forces PCs into tension with each other, no broader impact on the setting at large, characters are free to do whatever they like instead of pushed into difficult situations, etc.) and I'm the local "don't do this with AW, stop it, it's not that great" guy, so there you go.
  • edited June 2014
    Well, I would say it boils down to what AW means for each person. For me, its more related to world-changing / impactful choices and player-driven gameplay than scarcity, ugly situations, desperation, etc (I would say these elements are specific to AW, not its engine, as suggested by its hacks). But apples and oranges, man.

    *edit*

    One thing that could be interesting in a more Firewall / Ozma focused game would be pitching the group inteests against players factions ones. In other words, what do you do when Firewall wants the infected habitat earth-scorched but your Extropian sponsor wants a sample of the virus ? (and the Titanian teammate by yourside wants to bring back some survivors). Reward players XP for accomplishing these factional agendas and each mission potentially turns into a boiling pot of interests.
  • JD makes a good point. Something like the Solar System might be fantastic for this purpose, as well.
  • Solar System ? Is this some actual game ?
  • Just a random question – what are all your general opinions of EP percentile skills system? I got the book for free when I bought a copy of degenesis. I liked the setting behind EP, but the percentile system realllly turned me off.
  • Solar System ? Is this some actual game ?
    Yup! Solar System is a version of The Shadow of Yesterday by @Eero_Tuovinen.
    Read more: http://www.arkenstonepublishing.net/solarsystem
    (that page is a little old, maybe Eero can point you at more recent developments)
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