[Diplomacy] SG Game 2

124

Comments

  • That's what they say, but I only see the two-way tie in speculations made out of naivete or efforts at misleading others. Getting a two-way tie is so hellishly difficult without the game sliding into a solo by either player that I can't imagine it happening naturally unless players decide to metagame and cause it intentionally.
  • I was meant to be siding with Russia but, due to ineptitude, entered the wrong orders and ruined the gambit. France would capture London in the next year and Russia would be forced to take Edinburgh rather than leave it in my less-than-capable hands. I most certainly haven't 'given up,' I'm not some child turning over the game-board in frustration; my choice was the final tactical decision and I made it with pride and with admiration for my fellow players.

    Outside of the game, I've pressing commitments and so less and less time to consider my moves at length; a rash of hurried mis-orders and curt responses to diplomacy first cost me my status as major power, then my ability to function in a pro-active manner. It may have been that with enough diplomacy and tactical nous there was a possibility that I could have clawed back from the edge (both France and Germany have done so this game, as may Italy yet), but felt that my continued participation would have been merely a token gesture and the northern theatre would become significantly more lively without my stagnating decline. I hope I've ruffled no feathers surrendering thus, it was just the most positive action in the face of inability.
  • I'm finding that 12 hours for the retreat and build phases is just not enough. I've missed several retreat phases now, mostly because they started late at night and I'm not always able to get to the computer first thing in the morning. Hence why Tunis is sitting open.

    Whoever starts the next game may want to consider a 48/24 cycle. Tends to better fit a real world schedule across multiple time zones. Besides, with the way the server has been, there's no telling when a phase is going to start or end sometimes and the longer cycle provides a better cushion.
  • Posted By: C. EdwardsWhoever starts the next game may want to consider a 48/24 cycle. Tends to better fit a real world schedule across multiple time zones.
    Having missed a build before, I can sympathize.

    I do think 24 hours is a long time for builds, and its definitely a long time to wait for retreats. I get antsy.
  • Did the game finish?
  • Nope! Due to continued server delays and other such nonsense, we're still going. Here's the turn that just executed this morning. I think I'd best leave the commentary to others.

    Fall, 1909:
    image
  • I see that... well, OK, I guess it'd be in poor taste to start predicting anything at this late point. Let's wait for the game to finish.
  • Every time I think I have destroyed Chris, he does a ninja move and *boom* I have not.
  • Spring 1910 moves:
    image

    And the Juggernaut finally dissolves as the treacherous Sultan supports the French into Northern Italy while simultaneously the Tsar succumbs to his baser instincts and orders his fleets to secure the Black Sea. Elsewhere the French are engaged with the Western flank of the Russian war machine which has now absorbed Germany and nearly all of England.

    Away from the gunsmoke and furor of the continental front, Italian Ministers remain alive but in exile in Tunisia.

    And almost unnoticed amidst the demilitarization in Italy, Turkish armies roll uncontested into Rome. Evidence of the strength of this new Grand Alliance... or of it's weakness?
  • Yeah, I was asleep at the switch there. Can't even hardly blame him. Although I certainly do.

    Still, it is not for nothing that they call them the "'Never Say Die' Fighting Fifth" Regular Regiment of Istanbul. Avast, and woe betide all French and Russian bastards who interfere in Turkey's rightful territorial holdings.
  • It's clear that France and Turkey will have to fight like hell if Russia isn't going to take the game. I suspect that it's already too late, frankly. Still, never day die.
  • Oh, we've been counting the turns until this here stab behind the scenes. I think I gave Russia 1:1 in odds for a solo if he could keep the peace with Turkey until 1910. In hindsight that's not so far off; what he has is momentum against superior Grand Alliance strength, and momentum can be taken away by superior tactics. I'm just glad that Turkey finally turned, although I'm left to wonder if he'd been happy to ride the game to a "second place" if Russia didn't build in Sevastopol.

    Russia has 15 SCs and immediate chances at London and Holland. The fleets on the Atlantic are equal in strength, so proceeding to MAO is out of the question. The Russian strength on land is impressive and he has no obvious weaknesses in his line, which makes me think that the very best the Grand Alliance can hope for is to stop him at 17 (after which they can, with time, bring their superior strength to bear in grinding him down), and even that requires above-norm tactics. Aside from London and Holland, Trieste and eastern Turkish home SCs are all potential targets in the immediate future, although Russia also has vulnerabilities. The ultimate reason (the one I'll be happy to harp on for a long time after the game if you'd like to hear my amazing 20/20 hindsight) for this imbalance in forces is that well over half dozen Grand Alliance units are stuck near permanently in the Mediterranean area, useless against the Russian, who in comparison has carefully arrayed his available strength on useful fronts. If this is going to Russia, it'll be because of strategic deployment overcoming the disparity in strength.

    The landscape seems clear now: either Russia manages to strike a decisive blow towards victory, or the alliance manages to beat him back, at which point they can eliminate Italy at leisure and call a three-way draw. It'd sure be interesting to play Italy here - would need massive amounts of luck and discretion to rise from there. Probably not even possible if Turkey decides to take Tunis with his spare fleets.
  • I'm invincible!
  • Huh, Russia just won, didn't it? Turkey should've convoyed another army to Smyrna here to defend against an eastern Russian attack.

    image

    I won't comment on the situation in depth at this crucial juncture - there are a few minor details that could swing this either way, but assuming that both sides play strictly average tactics, Russia has a 80% chance to win at the end of 1911.
  • That's what I thought too, Eero. I forgot about the Turkish occupation of Rome, however. Turkey has a no army in Ankara that may slow this down. (I built a new fleet on the North coast of St. Petersburg as well, otherwise the above map is current).
  • Ah, yes. Builds change things, that's true. Quite well thought-out if that's the reason for why Turkey took Rome; I remember wondering why he took it from France when the French lines against Russia are already crumbling.
  • Is that a puppet regime in London; or will Russia hold war crimes trials and oust the entire British Government?

    How are the Italians getting alone with their Tunesian hosts; will the government-in-exile disband or remain poised to... well, if not strike, at least harry? Perhaps an offering to their new Turkish master, in hopes of future considerations should they prevail against the Rampaging Bear.

    Do the French and Turkish have any hope of overlooking past wrongs; can they unite and hold strong against the White Tide?

    I can't wait to find out. :)
  • Posted By: David Artmanwar crimes
    I resent that!
  • Posted By: Eero TuovinenAh, yes. Builds change things, that's true. Quite well thought-out if that's the reason for why Turkey took Rome; I remember wondering why he took it from France when the French lines against Russia are already crumbling.
    That is indeed why I took Rome - it was the fastest way to get a unit in Ankara. (Although I didn't consider it clever - just expedient).

    That said, I'm afraid the smart money is still on Russia.

    Although, while Diplomacy gets dull (for me) when it becomes primarily a tactical game, the tactics bit gets exciting again when you really have to examine all the possible options and try to out-think your opponent. I would prefer that this excitement not take place in my home centers, but we do not always get what we want in life.
  • Oh, one other thing - I am looking forward to serving as a color commentator for SG Diplomacy Game III, rather than playing. Two games in a row is slightly too much.
  • Smart play with Rome, and bold, I think. You could've just convoyed an extra unit from Italy, which would've allowed France to keep a bit more strength against Russia. Seems like this play will work well if you'll just survive the year; France could even pick up a SC from somewhere to bolster that Atlantic line a bit on the expense of the large Turkish Mediterranean fleet.

    Two games in a row is a lot, I agree. I'm fresh from commentatering here, so ready to play if there are enough people for a third go.
  • edited February 2010
    Posted By: David Artmanshould they prevail against the Rampaging Bear.
    He only dances.

    The English surrendered a few turns ago. Executions amongst the admiralty have left their fleets stationary, fighting with French support to remain independent.
    Posted By: Eero TuovinenFrance could even pick up a SC from somewhere
    Let's hope not...
  • Unless its Venice. Then I suspect you wouldn't care so much.
  • I am rooting for the Italian here.

    Go Italy!
  • That's a good point. I think you'd better support Venice from all adjacent territories this turn. Y'know, just to be on the safe side.

    For the record, I plan to sit the next game out as well. I have a baby due in mid-March, and I'm pretty sure I won't be able to keep up with a game for a while after that.
  • Posted By: PotemkinI resent that!
    History is written by the victor. Would you like a last cigarette? Blindfold?
    Posted By: MarhaultHe only dances.
    Then he's slamdancing with razor blades on his leather jacket.
    Posted By: DWeirdI am rooting for the Italian here. Go Italy!
    I can't help but wonder what marvels of cuisine will come from the African influence on the Italians in exile. Red or white sauce...? Hmmm....
  • Spring 1911.

    image
  • Ah, the puppet-government in London is swept aside as needs must.

    An amusing number of bounces. Stalemate?
  • I know. Jesus. Look at that mess. We may has well have just all stayed home.

    With the fairly high number of possible outcomes along that whole front, it's weird that we countered each other so thoroughly.

    On the other hand .. Holland! France represent.
  • While it's unbecoming to offer critique on those who have outmaneuvered you previously, France could have supported itself into a position to threaten England in the next turn with ease. But I cannot know the workings of the French command, it may be but a clever ruse or a grander part of wider stratagems unseen by the lowly creature that is spectator.

    I proffer my candidacy for the third bout, now that the examination period has ceased and I can once more concentrate on the rational art of diplomacy without distraction. This is, of course, only if the honour of present company will not be tarnished by deigning to once more battle with a man who elects surrender over the dignity that is death on the field.
  • Posted By: PotemkinWhile it's unbecoming to offer critique on those who have outmaneuvered you previously, France could have supported itself into a position to threaten England in the next turn with ease. But I cannot know the workings of the French command, it may be but a clever ruse or a grander part of wider stratagems unseen by the lowly creature that is spectator.
    No, it's cool. Clearly I'm already demoralized and beaten, unable to formulate a coherent battle plan, and reduced to spasmodic twitching. I was in the Army in Germany at the end of the Cold War, and the joke was that should we go to war with Russia we'd have what was euphemistically called "a target-rich environment." I resemble that remark.
    I proffer my candidacy for the third bout, now that the examination period has ceased and I can once more concentrate on the rational art of diplomacy without distraction. This is, of course, only if the honour of present company will not be tarnished by deigning to once more battle with a man who elects surrender over the dignity that is death on the field.
    More power to you. Don't let Eero manipulate you by impugning your masculinity; he'll do shit like that.
  • I'm surprised that the Russian didn't do Arm-Syr here; I was thinking that he'd need that to get effective about his threat to Turkish home SCs. Now we might say that the danger in that part of the world has passed, and it's actually the Turk's turn to go on offensive there, perhaps with Con-Bul(ec), or similar.

    The Turkish part of the front in general seems to be relatively solid, even an attack on Trieste doesn't seem too likely now that Russia detached the backup army from Galicia. Overall the French part of the front west of Switzerland seems the most vulnerable, and apparently that's where the Russian tries to makes his impact - he only needs to take both Netherlands to win, after all. Isn't happening this year, but there seems to be relatively little that the French can do to prevent Russia from retaking Holland and setting up a massive attack on Belgium for next year.
  • edited March 2010
    [Messed-up my post]
  • Well, you still have a year. Lots can happen in a year (especially if the opponent NMRs).

    The loss of Belgium seems like a given in spring, so the only question is whether the Alliance can turn the tide by seizing a Russian SC next year. This seems unlikely - I don't see any obvious outs here. To the contrary, it seems like France has to commit all she has to keep Russia from taking more than that.
  • Fall 1912 (following retreats)

    image

    Italy continues to bedevil Turkey in the south seas. When you beat a man, make sure you beat him all the way dead.
  • Is Italy Kingmaking? And it looks like a Turk-French alliance, judging by the (former) Italian peninsula.
  • edited March 2010
    I think Russia can win without Italy's help (although it's still not a foregone conclusion). I would characterize Italy's play as "Emotionally Healthy Revenge". Besides, props to someone who can be down to one unit for YEARS and still stay in the game.

    The Turk and the French certainly have a single mutual goal - prevent Russia from winning the game.
  • stupid.
    stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid.
  • You mean losing Rumania? The people will the praises of the Turkish liberators. They will strew rose petals at our bejeweled feet.
  • Well, losing Rumania certainly wasn't the brightest moment for Admiral Rhugazhev's 1st Southerns, that's for sure; the high command must be gastigating themselves for not supporting from Budapest as the good admiral's plan requested. That move could have been the upset that the Alliance needed, although the fact that Turkey still hasn't brought fleet power to bear on the Atlantic will surely mean that Russia will continue progressing through French lines for the year to come. Still, who knows - that raider on the Norwegian might slow things down further, and in theory it is true that the Alliance has the manpower to stop Russia; they just would need to get that power into position.

    The Italian is playing on a razor's edge, I do not blame him for being active at this juncture. His only road to victory (participation in a draw) involves getting himself to a solid enough position to make his removal infeasible once the Alliance has stopped Russia. He can't wait until the latter is a done deal, but he can't attack Turkey so vigorously as to cause Russian victory, either. A truly difficult position.
  • Posted By: Marhaultstupid.
    stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid.
    The stupidity being you blocking the turk from moving into the mid-atlantic while you may as well have moved to Brest?

    I'm learning things!
  • Posted By: DWeirdPosted By: Marhaultstupid.
    stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid.
    The stupidity being you blocking the turk from moving into the mid-atlantic while you may as well have moved to Brest?

    I'm learning things!

    No, no, that was Russia talking. He's upset about losing Rumania.

    My play may have been stupid, but I least I can tell the players apart.
  • That Rumanian loss certainly breaths new play into this game - great work, oh Defender of the Faithful. The danger of suffering from raider units both on the Atlantic and deep on the continent could do much to cripple the Russian drive towards victory. The Russian advantage lessens with every passing turn, after all.
  • My play may have been stupid, but I least I can tell the players apart.
    Having my head on a pike must have messed with my perception some. Apologies!
  • Fall 1912. Oy. Tactical slog. Much discomfiting of the Franco-Turk alliance.


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  • edited March 2010
    I effed myself. I was afraid to leave anything open for builds.

    These kinds of numbers (one player with 17 SCs) really limit your tactical choices. Like, you can't take any risks, because what might ordinarily be an acceptable loss (an SC for a strategic advantage) becomes game-ending.

    Fun! Sort of.

    EDIT: Oh, plus I screwed up WMe - MAO somehow. I guess I clicked the wrong stuff, and ended up supporting a nonexistent unit. Fog of war, and all that.
  • Have you all seen board before? It continues to blow my little mind!
    diplomap.gif
  • That would be a GREAT map for learning (esp. the oddity of Const and Den).

    This is the one I've always wanted to play:
    20th Century (BIG--be prepared to scroll!)
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