Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3rd ed.

edited August 2009 in Story Games
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite.asp?eidm=93&enmi=Warhammer%20Fantasy%20Roleplay

This looks interesting. It's got a lot of tactile elements to it and some interesting ideas about the manner in which your character goes about thing.

The nerd-rage however is startling.

What do you guys think about it?
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Comments

  • Looks cool.

    What nerd-rage?
  • Will probably be the first fantasy product I give money to since the 3.0 PHB.

    I'm pretty excited, yo.
  • shrug

    It's not the WFRP that I like to play. It's unlikely I'll want to play this or give any more money to FFG. That doesn't mean that it'll suck, except in so far as it means that supporters of "traditional" type WFRP play have been shown the door off into the "only real support is what you make" wilderness again. I am somewhat miffed that now it seems unlikely I'll get my hands on a "Career Compendium" supplement now without paying hideous "collectible" prices... 8P
  • I'm curious and somewhat wary.

    Part of my opinion will depend on whether one could buy just additional books, and I'm curious as to what influence this would've on Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy, which use the same system as WFRP 2ed.

    I'm also curious about the dice and cards.

    All of this is to say, when it's out, I'll pass judgment ;-)
    Also, it's a bit expensive. It might be worth it, but I like many people have the mental block for one big purchase, which is how other companies get us, with multiple purchases that add up to more than that "one big purchase", heh.
  • Some of it seems neat on the surface, but given the lack of current detail I do wonder whether it'll turn out to be doing anything to write home about. For example, I like the notion that the dice mechanic delivers more meaning than win-lose; but if it's a mere evolution on the woeful mechanics of WFRP 1/2 then I can't imagine it'll be enough to save the game.

    The price is probably too high for me to pick it up in the casual interest way I picked up WFRP2 and Dark Heresy, so although this looks a much more interesting proposition I don't think it's likely I'll buy it.
  • Posted By: jenskotLooks cool.

    What nerd-rage?
    Posted By: viktor_haagshrug

    It's not the WFRP that I like to play. It's unlikely I'll want to play this or give any more money to FFG. That doesn't mean that it'll suck, except in so far as it means that supporters of "traditional" type WFRP play have been shown the door off into the "only real support is what you make" wilderness again. I am somewhat miffed that now it seems unlikely I'll get my hands on a "Career Compendium" supplement now without paying hideous "collectible" prices... 8P
  • Somebody in Seattle will buy this and we'll play it at least a few times, before passing judgment.

    I'm fascinated that it's set up for 3 players + GM (at least, AFAIKT) and wonder if this means that there will be boardgame-style expansions allowing for additional players.

    It's kinda hilarious to me that geek-ragers inevitably believe that having a new version of a game out means that it's harder to play the older version or that the company is somehow abandoning the existing fanbase. That's like saying the 3rd season of a TV show sucks, totally invalidating the awesome of the 2nd season. The second season is still there! And Rogue Trader just came out using the WFRP2 system and it looks like there will be another dozen books for the combined 40KRP lines.
  • Tell me again how much you'd spend on a set of dice, PHB, MM, DMG, and power cards for 4E. Don't forget to include all the other incidentals, too.

    100 bucks for everything you need to play a trad rpg is a bargain.
  • I'm all kinds of excited. WFRP is the game I grew up playing, rather than D&D, and this looks like a genuine and, frankly bold, leap forwards. The various pieces look like FFG are leveraging their particular field of expertise - boardgames - towards an rpg.
  • edited August 2009
    Change is scary, Jonathan! Our WFRP/2 series was the best game ever and if FFG doesn't make WFRP/3 support exactly what we did with v2, then it must suck for everyone everywhere forever. These are the (motherfucking) rules.
  • Maybe it comes from the tradition of viewing new editions as progress and improvements rather than completely different games with the same title. It's like how, uh, the Merry Wives of Windsor is a sequel to Henry IV Part 2 (they both star Falstaff!).
  • If I can scrape together $100 I'll be first in line.
  • Jarrod, as I said, there's in part the psychological barrier of that one big expenditure.

    As for dice, I don't need to buy dice for new games, I've already got my old dice. Custom dice circumnavigate that.

    Furthermore, as a player, I can do well enough with just my PHB. And that's why I want to see whether people could opt to buy just the core rules. $100 for everything you need, but what if I, as a player, don't want it all, and don't need it all?
    Another part is that in most RPG cases, when I spend money on 3 books, I do it over 5-6 months. Yes, I should just save it up this time, but I rather have a constant influx of reading material, don't you?

    This is part of what makes this seem more like a boardgame, "Everything you need" means this is everything everyone needs, and that there's no need for single people to buy additional things (and then, it also means the game is perhaps a lot less fiddly? Cause then one person keeps the books, let us assume, so we don't all need to flip through our own copies?).

    This is another step towards muddying the RPG-boardgame divide. Bad? Nope, but it'll be interesting to see how they pull it off, and whether it works as an RPG, whether it works as a board game, whether it works as a strange new breed.

    So I wait and see.
    And I still think $100 might be too much.
  • Also, here is a link with more information about the game.
  • I'm thinking that someone in Seattle might well be me. It looks nifty.
  • edited August 2009
    I have to say that this announcement has been instructive for me, in that it has given me deeper appreciation for the angst of the 3.x partisans in the face of D&D4. I'm a long time advocate of WFRP, and for me WFRP2 simply put a high gloss on a system that already did exactly what I wanted it to.

    That said, I of course have a nice fat shelf of WFRP2 at home, and can continue happily playing it into the indefinite future. Still, there is a psychological barrier to getting buy in from new folks for a system that would require them to scavenge on eBay for books (which is why people do get a little antsy when their favorite system is no longer actively supported). That's why Pathfinder, for example, is so important to the 3.x community, and stuff like Labyrinth Lord, Swords & Wizardry, and OSRIC are a boon to the OSR folk. Hey, maybe the time has arrived for a WFRP retroclone! ;)

    That said, I'm sure I'll check the new stuff out when it hits. I'm nothing if not a packrat.
  • BTW, what's up with the false dichotomy of "Love it" or "Nerdrage"?

    A person can simply not care for it. A person can think something is boring. A person can dislike it, without having ever played any other form of WFRP, and thus not having anything against the system as a killer of their beloved system, but just as we all dislike games, or just don't like them particularly.

    "I think it's boring.", "I think it's too expensive".
    Not nerd-rage. Just evaluating a product.
  • Typical nerd-rage reaction.











    I'M KIDDING. JESUS. PUT DOWN THE AXE aaauuggh.
  • I'm actually thinking about getting this, where I hardly ever buy new games anymore. I think it looks just boardgame enough that it might give something in the fully "this is a game that you play in this way for this reason vibe" that is distinctly different enough from the muddle of a lot of RPGs that it might be worth my time.

    (Yes, this is a way of saying that RPGs suck and are badly designed. Whether or not that includes your favorite RPG I leave up to you to decide.)
  • Yeah, whereas I was not interested in the previous WFRPs I am definitely interested here for the reason Brand named. Also, I love the Warhammer setting.

    I hope I can play an orc.
  • Posted By: Brand_Robins"this is a game that you play in this way for this reason vibe"
    Hey, this seems familiar... ;-)
  • Maybe. If not there will be an expansion where you can play orcs. It will be $50, but I'm sure that's a small price for Bret to pay.
  • LOL

    I meant, you know what. This is exactly what seems to be going on with most indie small games. Small scope, play in a specific way, very constrained, try to come up with a specific tone and theme.

    Of course, it still brings up the board-game/RPG divide, if such truly exists, regarding limitations and options.
  • I played a lot of whfrp 1, and I loved it. It had a shitty layout and were poorly organized, but I knew where everything was due to long use. whfrp suffered the same problems, and didn't really "fix" anything or give a better play experience. I really hope this is what I was hoping for from 2.
  • edited August 2009
    G,

    Yea. Of course, the fact that this is closer to a boardgame sells me on it more, rather than less. Mostly these days I want my "this sort of vague hobby things" to either deliver a game or to deliver an experience/waking dream/memory relived/something like that -- but not some vague combination of both. Thus I was kinda happy with the very game based direction of D&D 4th, but felt it didn't go far enough.

    I'm hoping this thing will go far enough.

    Edit: Christ Jesus, I have a grad degree in English, you'd think I could spell vague in three tries. But no, I have to fucking edit the post 4 times before I manage to spell it right.
  • I dont know, WFRP 2 GM advice section was just about the worst advocate for railroaded adventures I've ever seen and there's at least a hint of it in that info about the game. I'm also not a big fan of the custom dice seems gimicky to me and more of a marketing angle rather than good game design, why exactly do we need pictures of warhammers and eagles on the dice? Seems like the answer is to force people to buy our dice.
  • Railroaded adventures is a problem in RPGs.

    It isn't a problem in boardgames.

    Will it be a problem here? I dunno, we'll see.
  • It's also not a problem if you bought tickets for where the train's going, and want to see the scenery of the train's voyage.

    Board game is one way, another way is to say, "We're all on the same page."
    It can happen.
  • I've always liked symbol based die mechanics. Fate dice are really easy to read, and I've mocked up dice for games with Set Target numbers, like Burning Empires (4-5 side has an explosion, side 6 has a star) and Shadowrun (sides 5-6 have explosions on them).

    In terms of reading results, I don't have to go through the mental arithmetic of "5-6 is a success, so separate them from the other dice.." and instead I can quickly group symbols. I suppose others might not mind the numbers on dice, but they've always been a struggle for me, especially when I have to count dice (West End Games Star Wars was a killer).
  • Posted By: Vernon RI'm also not a big fan of the custom dice seems gimicky to me and more of a marketing angle rather than good game design, why exactly do we need pictures of warhammers and eagles on the dice? Seems like the answer is to force people to buy our dice.
    Or more charitably: it's a way of easily representing what would otherwise be a table, or a rule to remember. Distinct symbol are easier to parse than 1-4 is a fail, 5-7 is a success, 8 is a magic bean. So there is a genuine potential to benefit from odd dice.
  • In some places the levels of nerdrage make me want to buy a copy to spite the frothing fanboys, but then I remember that it's $100 for a game I might never play on account of already having an elaborate fantasy RPG (D&D4e) to occupy my gaming group.

    But, I do like the idea that FFG is no longer pretending there's some kind of impassable divide between RPGs and other kinds of tabletop games.
  • In some places the levels of nerdrage make me want to buy a copy to spite the frothing fanboys
    Aha! Sounds like we are headed for another Story-Games "it annoys the trads, so it must be cool" froth fest ;)

    Of course to truly establish its hipness quotient, we have to have John Harper run it at the next GPNW!
  • Ewen, isn't that a form of nerd-rage as well? Nerd-raging against the nerd-rage?

    That seems about as common as the other kind.
  • Posted By: Bret GillanYeah, whereas I was not interested in the previous WFRPs I am definitely interested here for the reason Brand named. Also, I love the Warhammer setting.

    I hope I can play an orc.
    Not a chance. There's only 40 careers in the base game. In an expansion though...maybe?
  • edited August 2009
    Posted By: rafialJohn Harper run it at the next GPNW!
    Dude, it's like you can see the future or something!
  • edited August 2009
    I'm really really looking forward to it.

    If it can give me that old WFRP vibe *

    In a low search time format (yay for skill and power cards)

    In a low handling time (hopefully yay for symbolic dice reading)

    With low low prep (not much suggestion of this yet but the general boardgamey vibe and the "keep all your character stuff in these pouches" thingy suggests that maybe ease of play was a design goal).

    Then I will be SUPER SUPER happy. 4E almost got me there...but its only really low prep if you play a published module...and most of the ones I've seen are pretty weak.


    * For my group the Warhammer vibe was different than the D&D vibe.
    The D&D vibe for us was: go into dungeons, kill monsters, get treasure, level up.
    The Warhammer vibe for us was: stay above ground, kill people, get very little treasure, probably die.

    I've always been more of a fan of games where the main enemies are other people rather than monsters. People have complex motivations and interesting moral quandaries to pose before you kill them. Monsters are just easy to kill without thinking about it.
  • Ralph, in a way, we treat the other people as "monsters" in DnD, so we turn them into that.
    Or I guess I swallowed too much post-modern thoughts as I grew up :P
  • I'm not sure how much boardgame there is in it. They still talk about the GM "crafting" the story and emphasize story very much in their descriptions so I'm leery of where they are going. Maybe if they have some scenario creating tools or something along that line.

    As for the dice I guess I'm just cynical.
  • Posted By: rafialAha! Sounds like we are headed for another Story-Games "it annoys the trads, so it must be cool" froth fest ;)
    Could be, but when people react to a new edition announcement as though someone is threatening to drown a box of puppies, I can't help but roll my eyes. It's the new 4enfreude.
  • Hammerfreude begins.

    I think it looks keen but it also looks expensive.
  • To be truly hip, I have to run it the weekend before it's released.

    Which I will seriously try to do.
  • Posted By: rafialI have to say that this announcement has been instructive for me, in that it has given me deeper appreciation for the angst of the 3.x partisans in the face of D&D4. I'm a long time advocate of WFRP, and for me WFRP2 simply put a high gloss on a system that already did exactly what I wanted it to.
    I feel that knot starting to form a little bit in my stomach whenever I see a thread title about WFRP3 pop up. My greatest fear is that a lot of grit will be lost in favour of 'heroic' play... whatever that means. Everything I feel is completely unfounded at this point, but it doesn't stop me from feeling it.

    And yes, I'm sure we'll end up firing it up soon after release (although I hope the system seriously isn't capped at three players).
  • edited August 2009
    That (that the gritty feel will be lost) is my only real concern. WFRP felt true to the fiction because death was an exploding damage die away at any moment. What I do hope they lose is the inability for anyone to do a damn thing very early on, well, except for elves. I do hope they attempt some balance. I don't mind dyin', as the song goes, but I do mind being an initiate of Shallya and having no discernable effect on the game world while the elf scout carves his way through hell and back.

    Ok, so hecarves his way halfway to hell, and then dies with a black arrow in his throat, but at least he carves.
  • Yeah.

    W/FRP/WH40K, the engine of failing your rolls ;)
  • Fear? Concern? Where are the adventurers, the doers of great deeds? Do you have water where your guts should be? Cha! Kurgoth fears no new edition of an rpg! Bring it forth and I shall test my steel against it!

    (Also: When we played, we applied the Burning Wheel "failure is always interesting" mojo to the WFRP system, and lo, did it rock mightily.)
  • Thanks for the link, Judd.

    Does the FFG logo drive anyone else crazy? It drives me crazy. Like a wolf.
  • The people behind the Dark Heresy fansite Dark Reign 40K have created a seperate forum for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3rd edition.

    The new forum is for people that look forward to the new version and want to discuss it without suffering the geekrage from the "haters".

    The W40K forum at Dark Reign has a reputation for being a friendly place for people that want to discuss the setting and work on fanwritten material. We hope the new WFRP forum will be just as friendly a place to the WFRP3 community.

    Link: http://www.darkreign40k.com/forum2/
  • I love the Party Sheet. A lot of cool possibilities there.

    The dice pool sounds interesting but I want to see how it plays out. Will it add to the experience or is it going to make us spend a lot of time translating die rolls?

    The fact that they're already talking expansions makes my wallet hurt but it's not unexpected and after hearing about this, it's not unwelcome.

    A lot of smart design decisions. Seems to really be taking advantage of table space for PC info, and using cards instead of random tables.

    I am real curious about the GM tools he mentioned.

    Also this guy gives a really good presentation.

    I am way interested an will probably pick this up.
  • Posted By: OgremarcoWhat do you guys think about it?
    Looks interesting, potentially a great deal of fun.

    The video seminar, though.... my god, man. An amazingly dull depiction of something, right smack-dab in the mental space where I could have been transformed into a gushing fanboy instead of "looks interesting".
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