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      CommentAuthorHoho
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2006
     # 1

    I wasn't sure whether to put this in AP or 'craft, but as it's got broader implications than the game in question, it's going here.

    Suppose that you slip up one day when starting up a game and you let the players make characters without reference to one another (assume a system that permits this). You then have a scattering of characters in the void, each with his own interests and problems.

    It's easy enough to run a scene or two with these characters and small-scale concerns, but they don't link up and that's very boring to me. And, after a while, unlinked stories get unwieldy and the information load makes the game harder for everyone to engage with.

    How can I take these characters and link them into a constellation, so that they can interact in play in an interesting and significant manner? I don't want to dump or revise the characters, generally.

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      CommentAuthorDevP
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2006
     # 2

    (Exalted?)

    I think you need to get the players to the table and just lay it out, like "Folks, we need to actually stitch these guys together, so let's brainstorm." There are other gimmicks to stick people together - they have a common cause or external enemy, a common resource (like our shared Sanctum in my Mage game), the GM figures out ways for their plot threads to cross each other - but I feel like player authorship is the better way.

    That's a painfully vague answer though. Do you want to sketch out the characters here? Maybe we can come up with suggestions your players will dig.

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      CommentAuthorDevP
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2006
     # 3

    To talk more generally about the craft part, here's my thinking: each character, as created, has a domain of stuff they will (1) actively pursue, (2) reactvely care about, and (3) reactively respond to. In fact, I was paying attention to these three things all the time in my recent game (DitV), and stitched situations together at the overlap.

    • CommentAuthorFaerieloch
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2006
     # 4
    I recently ran a Sorcerer campaign where the characters were initially unconnected except that one was renting a flat from another and was a regular at a pub where the third played with his band. I tied them together by giving them a common enemy. 'course, it helps in sorcerer that they're all, well, sorcerers and that also gives them something in common.

    I've found that generally players are willing to help you bond them into a party if you give them enough incentive. Getting the players on board, like Dev suggested, is also a good idea.

    --Nancy
    • CommentAuthortalysman
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2006
     # 5

    You have a bunch of characters with individual desires and backstories that aren't connected to each other, and don't seem obviously connectable?

    Turn it to your advantage,

    For example, suppose character A wants vengeance on the man who killed her father, character B is looking for a secret to magical power.

    OK, simple. The man who killed Character A's father has the secret.

    That's not the best way to tie the characters together, but as you said, the best way is already gone, unless you rewrite character stories as suggested.

    •  
      CommentAuthorDevP
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2006
     # 6
    "The Law of Conservation of NPCs":http://www.20by20room.com/2006/04/small_idea_the_.html?
    •  
      CommentAuthorkleenestar
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2006
     # 7
    I had a similar problem when we started Gloria Mundi; the players got very excited about creating characters from very different cultures and there weren't many points of connection. We ended up solving the problem by having them all become part of a social club, so to speak - they all ended up in trouble and a powerful person who could not have children of her own adopted them (which is actually quite normal in Roman society). Give them strong and meaningful connections to the same compelling person, and you'll find that they make relationships with each other out of it.

    As Dev said, though, it's easier to talk concrete than abstract when it comes to this stuff . . . .

    --Jess
    •  
      CommentAuthorHoho
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2006
     # 8

    All right, by popular demand...

    This is an Exalted game, which gives me one convenient connecting bar - all the characters are to one degree or another fugitive from the Dragonblooded government. It breaks down from there.

    An-Lien is a doctor; she's Motivated to "save the world from itself," which indicates to me that she sees the world as set on a self-destructive path.

    I don't have a good hook on Ivory Veil yet. She is something of a Wodehousian socialite, I think - moving through society and stealing things from people because she can and that's what she is.

    Loram Nightstaff is an interesting case! He suffers from nightmares, and wants to drown the world's sleep in same.

    Radiance-Walks-in-Shadow is an assassin and a great beauty. Conveniently she has already befriended Saadi, below. She wants to kill the Scarlet Empress, and no doubt she is a bit put out that said Empress is missing.

    Saadi Draught-of-Reason is a failed sprout from a Dragonblooded family. He's another socialite, though his public disgrace has put him in hard times. His sister wants to kill him for being Anathema. He seeks to seduce the Four Beauties of Creation (evidently, the four most beautiful beings living). The Empress, Radiance, and the moon may be among them.

    • CommentAuthortalysman
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2006
     # 9
    OK. I know very little about the Exalted setting, but I'm getting this: the Empress is missing. Saadi wants to seduce her (assuming you accept that the Empress is one of the Four Beauties.) Radiance wants to kill her (conflict!) Loram is suffering nightmares; presumably he wants to find the cause (or needs to, to carry out his plan. Link that to why the Empress is missing. An-Lien wants to save the world from itself. Make the Empress's reason for disappearance due to a similar fear for the fate of the world, but the Empress could not bear the burden of it all, hence her disappearance.

    That leaves Ivory Veil. Sounds like a very selfish character, no real deep thought, so use her behaviors instead of her beliefs. Give her increasingly tempting things to steal. One of the things she steals will precipitate a crisis that causes the other conflicts to come to a head.
    • CommentAuthorJDCorley
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2006
     # 10
    One thing I've always wanted to do is to do something Boomtown style (named after the underrated short-lived TV crime drama), where the player characters interact without ever "teaming up". They have some common problem but are all approaching it from their own angles. It would use repetition to emphasize different details, and bounce around in time a lot. But I think it would take more than just that to PREVENT my players from "teaming up", I think they really like that.
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      CommentAuthorkleenestar
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2006
     # 11
    It sounds like you can connect Ivory Veil to Saadi because they move(d?) in similar circles. You could try to dangle Ivory Veil and Loram in front of An-Lien as people who need saving from themselves. You could also give An-Lien the opportunity to get involved in the assassination plot (probably trying to stop it, I imagine, which could be interesting). Unfortunately it sounds like you can't really MAKE the group get together, you can just give them opportunities.

    Another way to think about it is to ask, "What would they need each other for?" What problem could you present that would get them spontaneously to seek out someone else in the group? For example, could Loram consult a doctor when his nightmares start leaving physical marks on his body? Could Ivory Veil hear about the four-most-beautiful thing and start campaigning to get on the list by making nice with Saadi?

    --Jess
    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2006
     # 12
    Shreyas, are they all Solars? Cause there's a couple things built into the setting to unite Solars (and Solars and Lunars) together -- the Cult of the Illuminated, past lives, visions from the Unconquered Sun, and the like. So there's that.

    On another tack, I find it useful to "double up" the NPCs in conflicts inspired by the players to interlink the players together. So An-Lien's patient is Ivory Veil's current host, and the host's daughter is one of Saadi's targets, but she's also featured in Loram's nightmares. Because I'm that kind of GM, I try not to put the PCs all on the same side of the NPCs -- if one PC wants to smack the NPC around, I'll make another PC have great respect for them, and the like. I'd point at Engineering the Situation from FLFS, but I've got it torn apart in a dozen pieces, right now...
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      CommentAuthorDevP
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2006
     # 13

    An-Lien: I think this is an interesting angle, but "saving the world form itself" is a bit vague. What is she willing to do? Is she seeking to reduce pain where she can find it, or does she seek remaking societies? Is her vision more like an anaesthesia, euthanasia or therapy?

    Loram Nightstaff: He wants to drown the world in nightmares, you mean? There isn't a lot here, but you could pair him with An-Lien, who may have taken him in as something of a personal project; conversely, this may mean Loram is tempted to seek the very self-destructive ends that An-Lien is working against.

    Ivory Veil: She seems mainly like a bundle of reactions / behaviors, rather than a clear drive. It could be easier to drag her into others' plots, but I'm curious how and why she's moving through society in this kleptomaniacal fashion.

    Radiance-Walks-in-Shadow and Saadi Draught-of-Reason: These guys already seem great. They have mutual designs on the Empress and mutual rapport between each other. If you can peg a specific socialite goal to Ivory Veil, you can wrap them up as rivals and/or allies in a larger, evolving situation.

    •  
      CommentAuthorHoho
    • CommentTimeApr 25th 2006
     # 14

    Ivory is only a blank because I don't have her sheet, really. I'm sure she is more interesting than that.

    More later after I process. Thanks for all the ideas!

    •  
      CommentAuthorHoho
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2006
     # 15

    It's later!

    It's occurred to me that, in talking in specifics about the game in question, I've lost sight of the larger point, which is, despite the lure of the situation-to-character technique, I'd like to have algorithms for the opposite.

    Dev said something interesting about this:

    To talk more generally about the craft part, here's my thinking: each character, as created, has a domain of stuff they will (1) actively pursue, (2) reactvely care about, and (3) reactively respond to...

    Can I get you to talk some more about this, Dev? Maybe you can say something more about the "overlap" you referred to.

    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2006
     # 16
    It's all about the flags at that point, Shreyas. If the game in question doesn't have good flags (Exalted castes are sort of almost but not really flags; charm selection is probably a half-decent flag), there's a number of different things you can tack on.

    Here's one, by way of example: seat players around the table. On a sheet of blank paper, draw a circle for each player and put their character's name in it. Then start passing the paper around. When the paper is in front of you, you can: (a) write in a new word or phrase that interests you for the game, (b) circle a word or phrase that interests you, (c) strike out an uncircled word or phrase, or (d) connect two circled words or phrases. If you want to get complex, you can add (e) label the connection between circles and (f) add to a connection's label. Keep the paper going around and around until the characters are all connected one way or another and there's as many new circles as there are players times three. Now, that won't produce situation, but it will produce some very useful flags to create the situation with. Then it's just a matter of making individual NPCs/cities/conflicts that live up to the stuff on the flag map.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAdam Dray
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2006
     # 17
    Okay, I'm gonna pimp my own design work here. Go check out my ideas for a character and setting network for Verge. It's very similar to what Joshua just posted, with some refinements.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDevP
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2006
     # 18
    bq. Each character, as created, has a domain of stuff they will (1) actively pursue, (2) reactvely care about, and (3) reactively respond to...

    The difference in my mind is that (1) is things that the player is going to tell you, the GM, they are pursuing proctively; (2) are things they will jump in to deal with, but only once its been presented; and (3) are things where they may or may not of a proactive response, but the characters will change themselves in response to.

    So: Alexa is pursuing the murder of the Empress. Benjin is persuing gardening... but will react to threats to the Empress (perhaps is works in the Empress's garden and relies on her patronage). Ceci is pursuing a plan of local economic domination; Alexa perhaps cares about (i.e. will be nudged into proactive action towards) the poor people who she is

    So for one episode of DitV, I noticed that aside from the normal "pursue fixing towns":

    * Prestor: pursuing conversions of non-Faithful, cares about the existence of the supernatural.
    * Gertrude: cares about family unity, reacts to any Mountain Folk presence (negatively).
    * Tobias: cares about family unity, reacts to any Mountin Folk presence (positively)
    * Derrick: cares about authority, reacts to violence (violently)

    One of my recurring themes was thus bursts of supernatural malevolence linked to the Mountain Folk; probably the best situation came where the splintering of familes led either to direct opposition of the Dogs' authority or the pursuit of supernatural power, usually with the Mountain Folk / supernatural elements as an external pressure.
    •  
      CommentAuthorkleenestar
    • CommentTimeApr 30th 2006
     # 19
    Huh. Well, I just out-and-out ask my players, "What would make your character care about X?" For example, a couple of weeks ago, I needed to get a character out of his house and involved in a tense political situation. I just asked the player, "Hey, there are some people who are doing this thing. What would make you care about it? What reward could this situation offer your character, or what risk might it pose to you?" Then I modified the situation so that it put the character's oldest friend at risk (who was already peripherally involved). Boom - involvement!

    --Jess