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Play Advice: The Solis Gonzometer

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  1.  # 1
    Over yonder, Daniel invented the Gonzometer:

    "I hereby forward a motion to create "The Gonzometer," a 0-10 measure of how gonzo a game is designed to be. This is not to be confused with how gonzo the game can be played. 0 is dead serious, no humor and/or, no weirdness. 10 is all weirdness, all light, all the time. We will now begin assigning games particular gonzometer scores!"

    So let us begin.

    The Shab-al-Hiri Roach: 8.5
    Games with more unfettered narration often go gonzo, so in short-form games that's something to design toward. Or around. That said, Ron talks about The Roach as the quintessential wainscot horror game, more Robertson Davies than Edward Gorey. I've played with the dials turned way down, but it's never gone below a five. I think it could, though. Typical play is about an 8.5 I'd say, mad and perverse but clinging to genre tropes.
    •  
      CommentAuthorphasmaphobic
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2007 edited
     # 2
    Classroom Deathmatch: 7 (why have fractions on a 10-point scale?)

    I've only played two games of this, one run by the game's creator, the other by a friend at a very drunken party. At first I was led to believe that the game could only be zaniness and wicked-crazy carnage, but strangely enough the drunk game was quite serious and intense. The Battle Royale approach (and the rather flavorful text) definitely lends itself to a wacky kill-crazy approach, but I know from experience it can just as easily played with a personal, dramatic spin. I'd considered giving it a 6, but then I remember the hilarity that is the book's list of random weapons. Definitely a 7.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAlbert A
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2007
     # 3
    InSpectres: 11
    Short-form, unfettered narration, with an already pretty silly premise. I've had space-time rips fixed by the application of hamster-rail guns (yes, a rail gun that shoots hamsters), shooting a sandwich to feed its ghost to a hungry human ghost, and the ghost of a chupacabra possessing the chickens on a chicken farm to take very-belated revenge on the gringo interlopers to its lands.

    When Ghostbusters is about as strait-laced as you can imagine playing a game...
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      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2007
     # 4
    Sons of Liberty: 10
    You never use the resolution mechanic to see if you do something awesome or not. You use the resolution system to see whether or not the awesome thing that you just did was effective. Which means there's a big pile of gonzo-awesome-crazy happening every level, every game. That, and it's George Washington in clockwork power armor: nothing is sacred, but lots of things are important, so you play it to the hilt.
    • CommentAuthorptevis
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2007
     # 5
    Posted By: Joshua BishopRobynothing is sacred, but lots of things are important


    I *heart* this phrase.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2007
     # 6
    It's a weird headspace: I'm playing Paul Revere, who I respect, and I show my respect by mangling history in a meaningful way.

    So I'm not totally tangenting:

    Dogs in the Vineyard: 2
    There isn't much that's silly in this game, which doesn't for a moment detract from its awesomicity.

    Committee for the Exploration of Mysteries: 7
    Unconstrained narration in a pulp setting leads to some gonzo craziness, but nothing excessive or over-the-top. The emphasis is on looking good and doing it succinctly, so what could potentially be a pile of crazy is reigned in a good deal.
  7.  # 7
    Passages is a dead solid 5. It's like the Golden Mean on this scale. Sure you can play it at either end of the spectrum, but the game as written is right in the middle.

    Is that insight into why it finds so little purchase in the gaming mindshare? I wonder....
    •  
      CommentAuthorJosh Roby
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2007
     # 8
    Interesting, Justin -- we might find that the big successes are at the ends of the scale...
  9.  # 9
    Repertoire is an 8, I'd say. It's all player narrative input, but it's constrained in a useful way.
    Greylight is shooting for a 3. It's pretty traditional GM and Players kind of a thing, but it's meant to be Cyberpunk meets Sam Spade and grows up, so it can't be too serene.
    Coversia is harder to say. I'm having to step in and hack at the weeds and kill some babies, but I'm thinking it's shooting around a 2. Pretty serious, but it can get a bit dicey.
  10.  # 10
    Hi Gang,

    Black Cadillacs is clocking in firmly at a 1. Which is interesting, because it's narration mechanics include actual fettering -- but the players establish the fetters in real time.

    Subject material totally knocks it down the Gonzometer -- I imagine that it's hard for most humans to silly-fy war.

    It's also interesting how the on-the-spot improv nature of the game gets funnelled into making things horribly real simply by the situation.

    Cheers,
    Darcy
    •  
      CommentAuthorgreatwolf
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2007
     # 11
    Dirty Secrets rates at 1 nose, I think. I'd put it to a zero, but there's still opportunity for the wise-cracking PI, if you want. Still the overall subject material is pretty bleak.

    Legends of Alyria is at 3 noses, IMHO, though I'd like to hear from others. The setting is crazy weird, but it's still a serious game underneath it all.

    The forthcoming World-Mart, on the other hand, should be somewhere between 7-10 noses. That should be fun to make.

    Seth Ben-Ezra
    Great Wolf
    •  
      CommentAuthorAnemone
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2007
     # 12
    I'm going to try a sub-experiment. I'll list here only the games from the Story Games wiki list which I have not read, played or run, and I'll assign perceived Gonzometer score based on nothing but unresearched casual view. The idea is that I'm excluding the games I know something about so that I can approach an outsider's perception of some story games. Then I'd like people who have actually played the games to give "real" scores. I'm just curious to see how far off outside perception and actual play perception are -- I expect the difference to be substantial.

    1001 Nights - 6
    Agon - 3
    AMBER Diceless Roleplaying -3
    Bacchanal - either 0 or 10 :-}
    Beast Hunters - 4
    Best Friends - 7
    Breaking the Ice - 2
    carry. a game about war. - 0
    Console Legends - 1
    Contenders - 7
    Crime & Punishment - 6
    Dead of Night - 8
    Death's Door - 0
    Dirty Secrets - 4
    Drowning and Falling - 10
    Dust Devils - 8
    Fastlane - 4
    Ganakagok - 1
    Grey Ranks - 0
    Hero's Banner - 6
    ICAR - 6
    It Was a Mutual Decision - 1
    Kazekami Kyoko Kills Kublai Khan - 1
    kill puppies for satan - 10
    Legends of Alyria - 2
    Little Fears - 0
    The Mountain Witch - 3
    Mortal Coil - 3
    My Life With Master - 4
    Nicotine Girls - 4
    Nine Worlds - 3
    Polaris - 1
    The Shab-al-Hiri Roach - 9
    Shock: Social Science Fiction - 3
    Shooting the Moon - 1
    Sorcerer - 2
    Sufficiently Advanced - 5
    Timestream - 4
    Under the Bed - 8
    Verge - 4
    With Great Power... - 7
    •  
      CommentAuthorKobayashi
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2007 edited
     # 13
    Burning Empire : 1
    Even though the World Burning part can be stretched to 8 (My Theocracy banishes donuts and vegetables which are illegaly imported by a criminal faction).

    Cold City : 3
    Blasting nazi zombies can always lead to a few cheap (and good) laughs.

    Dictionary of Mu : 2
    Unless players go to Hy-Brazil after watching "Erik the viking".

    Waste world : 8
    My bug-eyed/boneless alien with big ears and my giants/doughboys/multiple eyes friends are gonna save you my lady.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKat Miller
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2007
     # 14
    With Great Power...has range that depends on the players. It can be played at a level 4 ( I usually run it at level 6)
  15.  # 15
    Dust Devils: 1 (8? Friggin' 8?!!?! Weird.)

    Nine Worlds: 4

    44: 6
  16.  # 16
    See... if Inspectres is an 11, then Octane is a 12...

    So maybe InSpectres is only a 10, and Octane is the exemplary 11.

    BTW, why have fractions on a ten point scale? Precision, my dear boy! Meaning that these people seem to think that they can narrow things down further than ten ratings. To, apparently, half ratings. Whether or not they can actually do this is another matter.

    Which means we could make this a 20 point scale, too, of course. It's just that people wrap their heads more easily around a ten point scale.

    Mike
  17.  # 17
    Primitive is a 3, some of the grunting is silly, but the stories it creates are serious, and often bloody affairs.

    Sweet Agatha is ?: While the subject matter is deadly serious, it sometimes ends up getting a little david lynchian and weird, (its probably a 2 or something)
  18.  # 18
    Hmmm; where would Hol be rated?
  19.  # 19
    Posted By: viktor_haagHmmm; where would Hol be rated?


    Judging by the consistency of my many games with that system, I can't see that rated any lower than 10, especially since the first book even deliberately omits a character creation system, and the second book's creation system is so inane as to be hilariously insulting.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAnemone
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2007
     # 20
    Posted By: viktor_haagHmmm; where would Hol be rated?

    HoL is rated "Jumped up Allah on a pogo stick!" :-p
  21.  # 21
    Posted By: viktor_haagHoL is rated "Jumped up Allah on a pogo stick!" :-p


    I think he's even a character concept in the second book.

    Mmmmm, now I want me some waste'ms. And Church 'n Munch!
  22.  # 22
    Dust Devils: 1. Definitely. The totally crazy Forge Midwest game with the seven deadly sins probably only reached a 2 or 3.

    Nine Worlds: We play it at a 5 or 6.

    Spirit of the Century: 8. Although our "Supervillian Island Resort" probably pushed up to 9.

    Agon: I agree with Sophie's 3.

    Contenders: 3. Tops.

    Principia: By default, 5. Easily playable at 1 and 10.

    Hero's Banner: 2

    Conspiracy of Shadows: 3

    The Shadow of Yesterday: 2
  23.  # 23
    Panty Explosion was designed to be a 3 or 4, but always ends up being played as a 10. I'm not sure why. Oh, wait...


    From my own experience:

    Kill Puppies for Satan: 6
    Sign in Stranger: 4
    Contenders: 2
    1001 Nights: 6
    Super Console: 5
    Sooting the Moon: 6
    Perfect: 3
  24.  # 24
    I have yet to play PE, but Glen's touted it several times. If it's anything like CD, though, I can definitely see frequent visits to 10-Land.

    I'm curious to know how you'd rate Little Fears, Jake >=)
    • CommentAuthorMcdaldno
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2007
     # 25
    Sea Dracula: a barely-playable-it's-so-crazy 11.
    Cheap: 7-8.
    Don't Rest Your Head: 5-10. 11 if you played it at Camp Nerdly 0 (rap battles with Egyptian Gods, models with TV heads, epic duels within human bloodstreams.)
    Shock:: A decided 4-5.

    I agree with Jake's assessment of Perfect being at a 3. It's deadly serious, but there's an element of crazy-gonzo while still being serious. There's inspectors trapping you in dimly lit rooms and yelling in your ears.
    •  
      CommentAuthorGraham
    • CommentTimeJul 28th 2007
     # 26
    Best Friends, 5

    For the default setting, it's halfway between playing the girls as stereotypes and as real people. Too stereotypey is too much; but you need some of it in there.

    Contenders, 2

    Touches of lightness, perhaps some stereotyped promoters, but, really, the default mode of play is pretty gritty.

    The Shab Al-Hiri Roach, 7

    I think that, by default, it needs to be grounded in realism and mundanity, so that the weirdness comes as a contrast.

    Graham
  27.  # 27
    I agree with Jake's assessment of Perfect being at a 3. It's deadly serious, but there's an element of crazy-gonzo while still being serious. There's inspectors trapping you in dimly lit rooms and yelling in your ears.


    Perfect has a kind of contained insanity that I find really appealing. I may have to re-evaluate my score after I have a chance to play it again though. It's hard to tell after just a read through and a con game.


    I'm curious to know how you'd rate Little Fears, Jake >=)


    It's hard for me to tell without actually having read the game or really understqanding how it's played. Our Little Fears game was one of the very rare times in the last several years where I've given myself completely over to the gm. Usually I go out of my way to learn a game before I played it, but in this case I decided to just trust you and roll with it. I've had a lot of fun, and based on what we've done it looks like Little Fears could ramp itself up to a 7 or 8 pretty easily. Whether thats what it was intended to do? I couldn't say. But I've enjoyed myself.

    Sea Dracula: a barely-playable-it's-so-crazy 11.


    Nick and I have taken out some of the stumbling blocks and added in sing-a-longs, group hugs and tag-team wrestling. We're aiming for a solid 20.
    • CommentAuthorMr. Teapot
    • CommentTimeJul 28th 2007
     # 28
    Posted By: John HarperNine Worlds: We play it at a 5 or 6.


    That's where our game of Nine Worlds was, too, I think. Though if I had been able to work in my idea for having a sentai-style giant robot battle between the Trojan Horse and the Colossus of Rhodes, that would have bumped the campaign up a few notches.
  29.  # 29
    sentai-style giant robot battle between the Trojan Horse and the Colossus of Rhodes,


    wow
  30.  # 30
    Though if I had been able to work in my idea for having a sentai-style giant robot battle between the Trojan Horse and the Colossus of Rhodes, that would have bumped the campaign up a few notches.


    No, that would be about a 9.5. Not on the gonzo meter. On the Matt thinks that is awesome meter.
    •  
      CommentAuthorLxndr
    • CommentTimeJul 28th 2007 edited
     # 31
    I'm trying to figure out where I actually planned Fastlane to be on the gonzo scale after seeing that "4". And I can't really figure it out. I think I designed it to jump around the scale as desired like a frenetic ferret on speed. Or it could be that I just don't design considering the gonzo scale at all? Maybe I don't play well with 'gonzo'? I'm not sure if I like the combination of 'weirdness' and 'seriousness' into one scale.

    So this is me waffling rather than actually picking a number. I think the impression of a non-player is a very useful bit of information to have, though.

    ETA: I think I figured it out. When you play Fastlane you start by chopping up the whole gonzo meter into little bits, mixing it up, and snorting it like the fine white powder it is. Then it all comes out at once while you play. What number would that be?
    • CommentAuthorMcdaldno
    • CommentTimeJul 28th 2007
     # 32
    Alexander, that would be a 7.

    Don't you have the reference manual at home?
  33.  # 33
    The last time that my gang tried running My Life With Master, it ended because we were too sad to continue. The game's design was the main influence here, as my groups tend to bump games in the opposite direction of gonzoosity. Then again, my woodsman did kill and dress one the palace's sacred swans, not knowing that the spoiled princess could only be happy when she was talking to birds. 2.

    1,001 Nights has ill-behaved camels in the example text and suggests dressing up your house with delicious food. There isn't really any mention of time-traveling robot sultans or anything outside the genre though. 6 noses?

    That's also my gut reaction for Best Friends. The art was the deal-breaker, winning out over Graham's rating by a nose.
  34.  # 34
    Crime and Punishment has the "first play gonzo" issue, that means that first time games are often up around 6 to 7 (like the one where we were playing Millennium and ended up bringing about the apocalypse...), but over time (either if playing a campaign or just playing a new one shot with the same group) it tends to settle down to a 3ish.

    TSoY... hm, this makes me realize I have a minor issue with the gonzo-meter when I try to get to rating my games. The weirdness and lightness being on the same axis kinda makes it hard for me. Cause, like, I'm all thinking about TSoY and being like "man, that's like a 6 because of all the poison vagina flowers and elves that are your dead uncle who help you repair your giant first world mecha but only if you screw your cousin" but then stopping and going like "but, um, its like all about slavery and murder and shit." So I end up unable to decide. Cause there is odd shit just all over the place, but the odd shit is about as funny as a heart attack. Like a 2 on the serious issue scale, but a 7 on the weird shit o meter.

    Agon, otoh, I can't see as running at less than a 5. Possibly too much Clash of the Titans in my childhood.

    Dust Devils and Dogs both are pretty damn near 1 in my experience. Maybe Unforgiven forever changed my take on the western or something. I know that once upon a time there were westerns of singing cowboys who fought off Martians who were trying to rob the Carson City stagecoach, but... yea, not so much with those games.

    Truth and Justice tends to run at an 8 or so, what with the dolphin brains in a giant mech trying to melt the polar ice caps while the PCs are hampered in their ability to stop them because the ancient ice goddess of Greenland is jealous that one of them has been seeing her boyfriend on the sly.

    Beast Hunters tends to run at around a 3 for me. I'd say 2, as there tend to be tribal warfare issues, but folks aren't starving to death left and right, and the zany of some of the beasts keeps it from being too serious.

    BTI... hmm... lot of flex there. Romantic comedy comes natural to the game, and so 6s and 7s are common enough, but I've also had a couple of games turn all Leondard Cohen without any warning and shoot right down to a 3. Maybe that's just me though, I'm all morbid and shit.
  35.  # 35

    Dust Devils at an 8! Good lord! I guess some people think that gut-shooting a whore because you love her is funny, though.

    But, then UtB wound up there, too, and that's a game about childhood fears. So I feel for you, Matt.

    It's interesting to see where Shock: ends up in peoples' experience. It's typically a 1 when I play it, and common features are the creation and destruction of religions, the end of the world, and economic inequality. But the rules, just like PTA, keep the meaning there without interfering with the color of that meaning. And sometimes speculative fiction can get pretty weird.

    •  
      CommentAuthorMikeRM
    • CommentTimeJul 31st 2007
     # 36
    Another way of looking at this is that "weird" and "serious" are two relatively independent axes.

    To think of random non-RPG examples, A Voyage to Arcturus or A Fish Dinner in Memison are weird and serious; Dirty Harry is non-weird and serious; any contemporary sitcom, practically, is non-weird and non-serious; and Ren and Stimpy is weird and non-serious.

    "Wild" is an alternative to "weird" sometimes.

    I'm actually thinking about putting in a section in Underground Railroad which is about setting the "wild" and "serious" meters and how they can be independently set depending on what kind of game you want: flying, magic, gadgets, and flying magic gadgets, AND/OR racism, gender roles and post-colonialism.
  37.  # 37

    Yeah, Mike, I agree. Serious and weird often go together in SF.

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