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Games and Gaming: [FreeMarket] Something's Up

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  1.  # 1
    Jared Sorensen had a twitter post that simply read: "00:00:00"

    My fingers skittered across keys and I found that the Freemarket page has changed. There's a 4 page preview and a little intro movie.

    Yes. This looks really beautiful.
    •  
      CommentAuthorwalkerp
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2009 edited
     # 2
    Very interesting. I'm not quite sure what to make of it. Parts of it sound quite close to my real-life activities today. There are intriguing hints of dystopia in there and I'm curious to see how much of that is central to the game. Novel presentation for an rpg and could possibly tap into the anime market with those aesthetics.
    • CommentAuthorMcdaldno
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
     # 3
    This is the first Freemarket peak that's intrigued me so far.
    •  
      CommentAuthornoclue
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2009
     # 4
    The intro movie is very cool!
  5.  # 5
    This was definitely the most difficult piece I've ever written. We'll have more news soon.
  6.  # 6
    Posted By: Luke WheelThis was definitely the most difficult piece I've ever written. We'll have more news soon.

    You always say that. Write something easy, for Pete's sake.
    •  
      CommentAuthormisuba
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2009
     # 7
    I am super excited. I haven't been this excited for a game in I don't know how long.
  8.  # 8
    Posted By: jessecoombs
    Posted By: Luke WheelThis was definitely the most difficult piece I've ever written. We'll have more news soon.

    You always say that. Write something easy, for Pete's sake.


    Do I really? Fuck. I'm old and predictable. Seriously, this fucking thing broke my brain -- and it's a very simple game.
    • CommentAuthorJ. Walton
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2009
     # 9
    Luke, keep on pushing. Your games will be played by our grandchildren, which is more than we can say for a lot of what gets produced, y'know?
  10.  # 10
    Our grandchildren will laugh at the smelly old men and their ridiculous "paper" games! How absurd.
  11.  # 11
    Is that little kid with the wrench and the robot dog a picture of your childhood wish-fulfillment, Luke?
    • CommentAuthorKingstonC
    • CommentTimeNov 3rd 2009
     # 12
    I don't know about Luke, but it's a childhood wish-fulfillment for me.

    I await with baited breath.
    • CommentAuthorwyrmwood
    • CommentTimeNov 3rd 2009
     # 13
    Posted By: Luke WheelOur grandchildren will laugh at the smelly old men and their ridiculous "paper" games! How absurd.


    Indeed, using more than 10^10 atoms to define a fictional character would be an embarrassment of riches in the post-nano-tech upload future of subsistence level existence where copies of our grandchildren multiply themselves across the galaxy as fast as matter and energy can be found.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDaniel H.
    • CommentTimeNov 3rd 2009
     # 14
    In the future, FreeMarket will be played only ironically.
    • CommentAuthorJ. Walton
    • CommentTimeNov 3rd 2009
     # 15
    Posted By: Daniel H.FreeMarket will be played only ironically.

    Dude, how do you play it now? You know it's really about the ind[CENSORED]unity, right?
  16.  # 16
    Our grandchildren will be on FreeMarket Station playing games about the adventures of 21st Century Earthlings.
    •  
      CommentAuthorndp
    • CommentTimeNov 3rd 2009
     # 17
    Posted By: Jonathan Walton
    Posted By: Daniel H.FreeMarket will be played only ironically.

    Dude, how do you play it now? You know it's really about the ind[CENSORED]unity, right?


    Or is it?
  18.  # 18
    Posted By: wyrmwood
    Indeed, using more than 10^10 atoms to define a fictional character would be an embarrassment of riches in the post-nano-tech upload future of subsistence level existence where copies of our grandchildren multiply themselves across the galaxy as fast as matter and energy can be found.


    Sounds like you're looking for ECLIPSE PHASE, my friend.
    •  
      CommentAuthormisuba
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009
     # 19
    Our grandchildren will obviously be LARPing Twilight 2000. I don't know what the rest of you are on about.
  20.  # 20
    You can totally do that on FreeMarket.

    Let's form a Twilight 2000 MRCZ!

    Purpose: to survive the aftermath of the Twilight War

    Tags: US Army, Wetwork, Cultivation
    Needs: Food, Medicine, Ammunition
    Founders: Frank Chadwick, John Astell, John Harshman, Loren Wiseman
    Tier: 1
  21.  # 21
    Hey Luke, I've been wondering - what if your goal is to fuck shit up?

    What if I want to geneer toxoplasmosis to infect people and make them do what I say? (Clever sociopath)

    What if I want to claim a portion of the station as my turf, collect protection, and murder people who tell me otherwise? (Violent sociopath)

    What happens?
    •  
      CommentAuthorMatthijs
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009
     # 22
    Griefer, Jason!
  23.  # 23

    That guy's accent is so fake.

    •  
      CommentAuthorDaniel H.
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009 edited
     # 24
    Posted By: MatthijsGriefer, Jason!

    Not at all. Those are both totally legitimate interests.

    In the first case, you'd just print or cultivate some tech that assisted you in Social Engineering challenges. For large-scale influence, however, you might be better off creating ephemera that implants those who experience it with memories that make them think your ideas are their own.

    The second is pretty much what Vulterror does, but you're not going to make a lot of friends that way (as in, you'll have nothing to do because no one will interact with you). You'd be much better off offering your wetworking and extortion services to another MRCZ who wants its own turf but is not yet large or powerful enough to claim it themselves. Unfortunately, extortion is of questionable value because it benefits users simply to give you whatever you want.

    Once your MRCZ advances a couple tiers, you'll have all the private space you need.

    In both cases, what to watch out for are people forming a MRCZ to act against you, or a MRCZ with the same interest undercutting you by offering their services in a better, more efficient, or more popular fashion. Or ghosting your goods in order to do so.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDaniel H.
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009 edited
     # 25
    Posted By: Jason MorningstarWhat if I want to claim a portion of the station as my turf, collect protection, and murder people who tell me otherwise? (Violent sociopath)

    Or: You get frownied until your flow tanks. Seeing as you don't have a lot of friends, either, beyond the other users in your MRCZ, you'll be stuck in flow debt without social insurance and put up for deportation. After everyone on FreeMarket votes against you for deathing them unnecessarily and being jerks; you'll be crabbed, packed in a lifeboat, and sent on a long, cold, one-way trip to another colony.
  26.  # 26
    Thanks, Daniel. I knew the system would somehow route around or force self-correction but I didn't know how.

    So there's no way to inflict long-term harm on others? What about the station - can you break that? Could you contaminate it, irradiate it, unleash voracious nanobots, shove it into a planetoid? Could you build a nihilistic death cult MRCZ to help you?

    I'm curious about the boundaries of agency, both in the imaginary world and as a player. I crave megadeth.
    •  
      CommentAuthorwalkerp
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009
     # 27
    It's sounding disturbingly more and more like rpg.net.
  28.  # 28
    You're about 900,000 people short of megadeth but you can break the station. Nobody's done it on a massive scale, because people who are there tend to want to remain there. And there are 86,978 people who will exile you should you plan untoward harm to them and theirs.

    Ultimately, the chance of you doing any realm damage is remote until you rise in your MRCZ's tier. Only at a high tier would you have the space, resources, flow and help necessary to really fuck shit up. But it's possible. Just about anything is.

    I'd appreciate it if you don't death everyone though. I made you some pie.
  29.  # 29

    900,0000

    Is that pronounced "ninety borjillion"?

  30.  # 30
    Jason,
    You can certainly try. The game provides you with experiences like Wetwork and Social Engineering to kill and manipulate people. You can use Printing, Cultivation and Recycling to create a variety of murderous tech. There's serious mechanical support for antisocial behavior.

    The catch is that you're probably going to run out of flow rather quickly. You need to convince lots of people that what you're doing is right and cool and good for the station. If you can do that, who cares if you kill everyone and destroy the station? If you can't do that, you'll be deported like the raving mad man that you are.
  31.  # 31
    Cool, thanks guys. I enjoy a delicious pie.
  32.  # 32
  33.  # 33
    In my ongoing quest to kick a hole in the communal pressure wall, could I start a MRCZ dedicated to freeing technology from arbitrary key limits? Whose idea was a hard limit on tech per key, anyway? Letting everybody have and keep more free stuff seems like a popular way to make friends.
  34.  # 34
    You can only own and benefit from five pieces of technology at a time. It may seem like a small amount, but I have yet to encounter a user who maximizes even three pieces.

    Giving away technology or data nets you flow and the recipient gets a nice new piece of tech or data. Of course, it usually costs you flow to get the tech in the first place, so it's not a free lunch.
  35.  # 35

    I can't tell you how excited I am about this, guys. I said in an interview at once point that I couldn't wait until Shock: wasn't the only science fiction RPG out there. I have every reason to expect that this is exploring some very cool ideas that a game of Shock: could only hint at.

  36.  # 36
    Joshua, it is most definitely a science fiction roleplaying game.

    Jason, I'm not saying that you can't form a MRCZ whose soul purpose is to give stuff away. That is a very worthy goal!
  37.  # 37
    The ultimate freemer is a recycler with lots of friends who gift stuff. You can get around the 5-tech limit by recycling tech gifted to you by other users (2:1 ratio) and keep doing that until you've custom-built the exact tech you need for the moment.

    > AGGREGATE/Ping2UserID [Jason Morningstar] The Aggregate wants to encourage free trade of technology. By limiting registration of technology, we hope to encourage you to give away or recycle unwanted/unused technology both to foster a community of trade and to limit storage of unused technology.
  38.  # 38
    Weasel words like "hope" and "encourage" make me reach for my space-gun. What is this Aggregate, and how can I destroy it, bend it to my will, or become it?

    (I feel like a space teabagger!)
  39.  # 39
    Explain this urge to me. Is a game about friendly competition, cooperation, donation and friendship supremely unappealing? Why is the near-universal first impulse to take a dump in utopia?
    • CommentAuthorHiQKid
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2009 edited
     # 40
    [snark]I, for one, welcome our new hippie overlords.[/snark]

    In all seriousness, this sounds amazingly fun. Especially since my current playgroup hates non-friendly competition. I'll be looking forward to release day on this one.

    Also: What's the scale on this thing? It sounds like it could be very interesting on a (relatively) massive scale, and actually flatter in a 4-5 person play group. Story-Game MMO, maybe? I doubt that's what's happening here, but...
  41.  # 41
    As the Welcome document says, four users plus one superuser.
  42.  # 42
    Because the current trend in media is to show an ideal, then rip the face off to show the stinking mass of distopia beneath. We're conditioned to expect it, so we look for it.

    This is why we can't have nice things.
    • CommentAuthorMcdaldno
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2009
     # 43
    Posted By: Luke WheelExplain this urge to me. Is a game about friendly competition, cooperation, donation and friendship supremely unappealing? Why is the near-universal first impulse to take a dump in utopia?


    Luke, are these questions literal/serious/earnest?
    Your sample packet presents several strongly dystopian hooks.

    It's a game about being cooperative, and producing, and mutualism, and donation and social capitalism... but you've also provided several flags in the text that say, to me, "maybe all ain't fresh in the state of Denmark."

    If you'd like them pointed out, tell me. If you already know where they are, then... for serious, doesn't it make sense that SOME people will riff off them? Especially considering that the majority of games are about people fighting and stickin' it to the man/necromancer/orcish horde/system?
  44.  # 44
    Let's just say I'm acutely obtuse. I don't understand. Riffing is one thing, -- things might get a little rough in a riffing -- but wholesale malignant destruction is another.

    Feel free to point out what I'm missing.
  45.  # 45
    I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a dick.

    Is the tack I'm taking in this thread common in play? Do people try to get all gamer aggro and get swatted down when they run out of juice? It seems like a very basic impulse, like playing the mysterious badass loner in D&D, or taking the tenets of the setting and playing against them just because.

    If it does happen, is it self-correcting on a player level? Does the Flow-less aggro guy figure it out usually, or does he end up sulking and trying harder?
    •  
      CommentAuthorsage
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2009
     # 46
    I kind of thought that this mistrust of paradise was the point of the game (or at least an interesting metagame).
    •  
      CommentAuthorJohnstone
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2009
     # 47
    Jason, you can simulate your targeting of the donut by placing the physical game, including box and all parts, in a fireplace, oven, metal can, et cetera.

    You then simulate nuking it by LIGHTING IT ON FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 (<-- That 1 is an actual mistake)

    THAT is how you destroy the donut.
    •  
      CommentAuthorsage
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2009
     # 48
    Jason, John Harper told me about an assassin character that he played in a game with Luke and Jared, and it sounded like his lack of flow led him to self correct pretty quickly. Typical mysterious badass kind of character, who apparently managed to get into roughly one fight before running out of flow, while Jared's Musician/Video producer flourished. Granted, John's pretty on the ball, but it sounds like most people who are at least open to games not about killing things are taking their loot would probably see the feedback loop.

    Maybe he'll drop by and fill in the story.
    • CommentAuthorMcdaldno
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2009
     # 49
    Posted By: Luke WheelLet's just say I'm acutely obtuse. I don't understand. Riffing is one thing, -- things might get a little rough in a riffing -- but wholesale malignant destruction is another.


    So. Jason's coming out of left field with his ideas of wanton destruction. Playing a murderer in Freemarket is about as sensical as playing a murderer in Breaking the Ice. Totally viable, totally besides-the-point.

    Yeah?

    I'm reading that Jason's line of thinking is more about testing how/whether the economy of the game structures the good will, mutualism and cooperation that the game is (purportedly) about, or whether those things come from elsewhere.

    Do lots of people in playtest try and play violent aggro saboteurs? If so, do you let them?

    Also - one of the 4 things you can do (Create, Destroy... w/e) is Destroy. That seems to say that you're looking for people to spend 25% of their time destroying stuff. Yes/no?
  50.  # 50
    Based on some extensive playtesting, Luke and I saw many (now standard) FreeMarket tropes arise. One of the classic character archetypes is the death artist.

    The nicest characters I ever met were a torturer and a drug dealer, respectively while the soccer moms who ran a party planning service were one of the more cutthroat groups.

    Take what you know and flip it. That's the pumpkin factor.

    FWIW, a player in the early stages of the game asked, "So, I can play a sadistic, brutal rapist/murderer?" And we said, "Yes, but do you want to?" He declined to answer and instead made a character who printed a pet monkey. "Shitting on paradise" seems to be a popular concept until the asses hit the chairs and it's time to create characters.
  51.  # 51
    Posted By: joepub Also - one of the 4 things you can do (Create, Destroy... w/e) is Destroy. That seems to say that you're looking for people to spend 25% of their time destroying stuff. Yes/no?


    There are 14 things you can do on FreeMarket. Only one of them involves deathing people. Killing up there is different than killing down here. Besides, destruction is so 20th century.
    • CommentAuthorJ. Walton
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2009
     # 52
    The idea of playing Wolverine is really exciting. Unfortunately, the reality of playing Wolverine sucks balls.
  53.  # 53
    Logan
    Clade: Mutant berserker
    Generation: Blank
    Flow: 5
    MRCZ: X-Men (Social Engineering / Mutant unity / Ephemera)
    MRCZ Tier: 3

    Geneline
    Weapon X (3)
    ( Fast healer / Animalistic / Aware)

    Experience
    Breaking (1)
    Shaping (1)
    Wetworks (1)

    Interface
    Adamantium skeleton (1) Wetwork / Adamantium / Unbreakable
    Adamantium claws (2) Breaking / Retractable claws / Like a hot knife through butter

    Technology
    VR Helmet (1) Shaping / Sensory Enhancement / Virtual
    • CommentAuthorKingstonC
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2009
     # 54
    So, somebody accused of a heinous crime in Freemarket. How do they go about not getting deported? It's an anarchy, so there isn't any court system that can find them innocent. Are they tried in the court of public opinion? What if they're guilty as sin, but are, say, a talented film director or it's science fictional equivalent. Will that save their bacon? What can they do if they're innocent, but my accuser is influential and a master of slander?

    Are there some MRCZ that performs the same functional role as the court system, determining guilt or innocence for the masses who are too busy to worry about it themselves? Are there several competing MRCZ that try to fill the same judicial niche?
  55.  # 55
    You're only put up for deportation if your flow drops below 1. Being accused of a heinous crime isn't enough to warrant deportation.

    If you're about to be deported you need to gift your tech. That's the fastest way to bump the flow. But if you're up for deportation, it's likely that no one wants to touch your stuff.

    Your friends have probably helped you as much as they can (and fell short), but it never hurts to try to make new friends. New friends might trigger the social insurance threshold.

    These conditions tend to produce a rather pathetic ritual, though. We see a stream of see miscreant antisocial flood/bleeders begging users to accept their friend requests or pleading for someone to take their malware (as a gift) as they are escorted to the hole by the sweeps. Good riddance.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2009
     # 56
    I had the same line of thought as Jason but chose not to post about it. Let me see if I can explain: The reason to shit on utopia is that the core story of a utopia is "if only people would bend to my political views, everything would be great."

    I hate your politics, and thus I have an urge to shit on your utopia.

    Now, my next thought upon reading the material is "Okay, I'm thinking about death cults. I'm clearly missing the point of the game. And you know, I can't get into libertarian fantasies. This game just isn't for me, it's clearly for the people who do get into those fantasies." I mean, jesus christ, the game is called "Free Market." That's a pretty good sign that a mixed-market idealist like me is not going to enjoy it conceptually.

    Apparently some other people's thought is more like: "I must argue against the very existence of this game." That I can't explain.

    yrs--
    --Ben
  57.  # 57
    Posted By: Ben LehmanAnd you know, I can't get into libertarian fantasies. This game just isn't for me, it's clearly for the people who do get into those fantasies." I mean, jesus christ, the game is called "Free Market." That's a pretty good sign that a mixed-market idealist like me is not going to enjoy it conceptually.


    We haven't seen the game yet, but really, with Luke & Jared behind it I can't help but read "FreeMarket" with a tongue-in-cheek tone.

    Maybe I'm wrong, though.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKrippler
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     # 58
    What if you made an organization that was about jailing/fining or killing people who had upset someone? I could see a government in the style of todays governments spring up and prosper as long as people who think regulating murder (like: there is no comfort for me if the guy who killed me loses flow and might be deported) by imposing harder restrictions than those posed by the station.

    What stops that from happening?
  59.  # 59
    To be crystal Internet-clear: I was interested in poking at the hard edges of player and character agency in the game, which I know nothing about, and I was trying to do it in a playful hyperbolic way. I love you guys; I'm sure I'll love your game.
    •  
      CommentAuthorndp
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     # 60
    Yeh, the two times I've played it i had a really hard time getting into it. I didn't even want to shit on utopia - it's more like Ben said, I just didn't understand it. My problem was something like - if all my needs are met and provided for, and I can be whoever I want...why do I do anything?

    Other people obviously don't have a problem answering that question. It's a cool game, lots of people are going to like it, don't get me wrong. It's just not for me.
    • CommentAuthorLuke Wheel
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     # 61
    Posted By: Jason MorningstarI love you guys; I'm sure I'll love your game.


    I am positive that this is a false corollary. I'm confident you'll hate this game!

    So far we have those who's first impulse is to destroy, those who's first impulse is to regulate and impose laws, and those who can't be motivated without money and privation.

    Very interesting.
  62.  # 62
    Press release time, suckers. Thin slice this!

    FREEMARKET COLONY PROGRAM IS GO FOR LAUNCH!
    After two years in development, FreeMarket is set to launch its colony program. Users can register at projectdonut.comand will soon be able to download a beta version of FreeMarket’s system documents, ephemera and other material necessary to engage in the experience.

    Colonists will also have priority when pre-ordering the final release of FreeMarket, a limited edition set signed and numbered by designers Luke Crane and Jared Sorensen, and a reproduction of the original CHOIRS mission patch. As space on the outgoing lifeboat transports is limited, FreeMarket can only accept the first 1,000 registrations.

    Luke Crane is a game designer and founder of the Burning Wheel MRCZ. Jared Sorensen is a game designer and founder of Memento Mori Theatricks.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRafu
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     # 63
    Posted By: Nathan P.My problem was something like - if all my needs are met and provided for, and I can be whoever I want...why do I do anything?


    You, sir, are obviously not a hedonist, are you? ^__^
    • CommentAuthorpeccable
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     # 64
    Huzzah! :) Just signed up for the program.

    RE: The "utopian" nature of the game -- and the possible underlying politics (libertarian or no), I can speak a little of the game Jared ran for four of us at the last Dreamation.

    To give you a hint, the most common comment was, I believe: "God, the future SUCKS!" And we were a MRCZ of artists/scientists, which, I understand, is another of the tropes that tends to come up in play. Even with the goal/mission/purpose of just creating cool stuff and making friends, we (or at least i) managed to become a smoking hole in the ground by the end of the session. And had a blast doing it. :)

    I found it really amazing how the game had this ability to cause me serious cognitive dissonance. I'd be perfectly rational on one level and acting like a total fool on another. Yes, the game has reward systems for acting in certain ways and it's STILL difficult to do. All I had to do in our session was give away a teddy bear. Seriously. And the flow would have fallen as mana from heaven. Instead, it ended with: (1) a video of me having a breakdown turning into the equivalent of an internet meme and (2) an ex-boyfriend of mine, a member of a MRCZ of artist/terrorists whose motto is "We Will Fuck Your Shit Up" ready to ... well, fuck my shit up. So I can definitely say that all is not Happy Golden Fun Time aboard The Donut.

    Also, frownies are seriously psychologically damaging.

    -d-
  65.  # 65
    Posted By: Luke WheelSo far we have those who's first impulse is to destroy, those who's first impulse is to regulate and impose laws, and those who can't be motivated without money and privation.


    And those who can be motivated by a CHOIRS mission patch! Sign me up onboard one of those lifeboats!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteerpike
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     # 66
    I have signed up, I was lead to believe there would be pie and cake upon sign up? Regardless of actual pie availability I cannot wait for this game, it looks freaking awesome.

    - Colin
    •  
      CommentAuthorBen Lehman
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     # 67
    Posted By: Luke Wheel
    So far we have those who's first impulse is to destroy, those who's first impulse is to regulate and impose laws, and those who can't be motivated without money and privation.


    Uh, I wouldn't say my first impulse is to destroy. If I, Ben, were on Freemarket Station, I would simply get the hell out ASAP.

    My first impulse is to go "huh. Government by 4chan*. I wonder how that would work ... oh. Ugly.'

    yrs--
    --Ben

    * Alternatively, since I'm not totally clear on the mechanics, government by slashdot. Not honestly feeling much better about that one.
    •  
      CommentAuthorjenskot
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     # 68
    Dogs in the Vineyard is a game about things I don't personally agree with. But I really, really enjoy playing it.
    •  
      CommentAuthordroog
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     # 69
    Okay, signed up. Now to figure out what to do.
  70.  # 70
    Posted By: Nathan P.Yeh, the two times I've played it i had a really hard time getting into it. I didn't even want to shit on utopia - it's more like Ben said, I just didn't understand it. My problem was something like - if all my needs are met and provided for, and I can be whoever I want...why do I do anything?

    Other people obviously don't have a problem answering that question. It's a cool game, lots of people are going to like it, don't get me wrong. It's just not for me.

    That is a legitimate question which anyone working on an actual eutopia rather than one of Ben's utopias* needs to think hard about. If you're interested, The Fun Theory Sequence is a series of articles on the subject, exploring topics from how much fun there can be in the universe to why boredom is useful to what it means to have purpose in life. Or, if you don't have hours and hours to read all the material there, it's summarized "with all the background theory left out - just the compressed advice to the would-be author or futurist who wishes to imagine a world where people might actually want to live:" 31 Laws of Fun.

    *Ben's utopias:
    Posted By: Ben LehmanThe reason to shit on utopia is that the core story of a utopia is "if only people would bend to my political views, everything would be great."
    • CommentAuthorLuke Wheel
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009 edited
     # 71
    Posted By: Ben Lehman
    Uh, I wouldn't say my first impulse is to destroy.


    I put you in the "motivated by money and privation" category.

    And you're not alone. One of the editors of the game has a biblical hatred for it.
    • CommentAuthorLuke Wheel
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     # 72
    Posted By: Guy Srinivasan "with all the background theory left out - just the compressed advice to the would-be author or futurist who wishes to imagine a world where people might actually want to live:"31 Laws of Fun.


    Holy FUCK ME, our game DOES THAT SHIT.

    Thanks for the link Guy. Jared and I hadn't see that until now. Very exciting!
    • CommentAuthorboulet
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     # 73
    Is the game circumscribed to the donut or is it possible, say, to plan for Mars terraformation or something grand like that?
    • CommentAuthorLuke Wheel
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     # 74
    It absolutely doesn't work on Mars, Jupiter or Earth or their satellites.
  75.  # 75
    Mars sucks. It's like Detroit but underground and dusty. Not as cold though.
    • CommentAuthorPaul Czege
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     # 76
    Posted By: Luke Wheel
    Posted By: Guy Srinivasan
    ...
    31 Laws of Fun.


    Holy FUCK ME, our game DOES THAT SHIT.



    Would you be scared in your utopia Luke? Jared? How so?

    Paul
    • CommentAuthorLuke Wheel
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2009
     # 77
    I would be scared to die.
    I would be scared to lose my memories.
  78.  # 78
    I'd want to re-make myself constantly. I'd be like my own website. Always under construction, changing constantly and never happy with the result.
    • CommentAuthorwyrmwood
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     # 79
    Posted By: Luke Wheel
    Posted By: Guy Srinivasan"with all the background theory left out - just the compressed advice to the would-be author or futurist who wishes to imagine a world where people might actually want to live:"31 Laws of Fun.


    Holy FUCK ME, our game DOES THAT SHIT.

    Thanks for the link Guy. Jared and I hadn't see that until now. Very exciting!


    Eliezer's fun theory work has some strong parallel's with some of game design ideas in this community. He is trying to design a singleton friendly AI which will define humanity's future before an unplanned AI with an alien value system does so (such as the paper clip maximizer). It makes quite a bit of sense in that context not to build a supposedly friendly AI that just turns people into orgasmium - where humans exist in a comatose state with pleasure cranked up to maximum levels - it's not any sort of future we want even if, strictly speaking, it maximizes our happiness.

    On a different note, I've signed up for the beta test. I'm sure I'll be able to wrangle a good test group.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteerpike
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2009
     # 80
    Can I build and run a theme park adventure land on the donut?

    - Colin

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