Not signed in (Sign In)

Vanilla 1.1.9 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome Guest!
Want to take part in these discussions? If you have an account, sign in now.
If you don't have an account, apply for one now.

Games and Gaming: AGON ex Machina

Bottom of Page

1 to 20 of 20

  1.  
    • CommentAuthorDyson Logos
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2009 edited
     # 1
    AGON ex Machina was inspired by one of my players who has been discussing (but not actually getting around to making) an Agon Cyberpunk hack. (He was working with the title "A:/GON" but that's just too old school for me).

    The groundwork for the conversion was done by John's Shadowrun conversion and Dave Younce's DAGON. The goal is to produce something a lot like CyberPunk 2020 in feel (originally we were thinking of Ghost in the Shell, but I want something with a larger scope to work from), although I've managed to almost completely miss out on the Humanity aspect of the game (but instead have managed to keep the core part of playing the game: shopping for new toys!)

    The first part of the conversion is the stats, before going into Chargen. These draw a lot from John's Shadowrun conversion.

    Fate = Edge (as you gain more edge, you get better at what you do and take bigger risks and load up with more cyberware, but pushing the edge will come back and bite you and finally you burn out, pushed over the edge)

    Glory = Rep

    Divine Favor = Toys (having the right toys is key - and letting them be a background feature that you pull out when you need them saves on all the insanity of packing a thousand different mini-toys before every job. Everything on the Divine Favor list can be explained with some awesome hardware. A boost to a roll is because of your sneaksuit, smoke grenade, drugs, whatever.)

    Oaths = Favors


    Core Abilities
    Awareness = Insight
    Reflexes = Grace
    Body = Might
    Cool = Spirit

    Hack Abilities
    Credibility = Orate (Social Hacking)
    Hacking = Electronic Hacking
    Medtech = Heal (Body Hacking)
    Technical = Hardware Hacking

    Ops Abilities
    Athletics = Athletics
    Contacts = Lore
    Stealth = Cunning
    Martial Arts = Hand to Hand

    Fighting Abilities
    Firefight = Mid-range
    Support = Long-range
    Close Combat = Short-range
    Evasion = Defense
    •  
      CommentAuthormjbauer
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2009
     # 2
    This sounds great.
    • CommentAuthorValamir
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2009
     # 3
    One thing to consider to model firefight vs melee is cover. Say an alternate maneuver (like Battle Cry) called "Take Cover" that lets you make some sort of test to create temporary armor...and use that armor exactly like regular armor except you don't care when it gets blown up.

    "Covering Fire" would be another good one where you use your attack roll to give other characters additional defense dice.

    "Flank" would be another good one where you make a roll to negate someone else's cover.
  4.  # 4
    Thanks Valamir, that's exactly what I need. I'll put those in as example maneuvers, and suddenly I'm less concerned about the lack of Shields.

    - - -

    Character Creation

    Your Name
    The first thing needed is the character's name. You have two options most characters have a name and a nickname that helps identify them (Jimmy the Roach, Two-Tone Johnny, Billy and his Smartgun, Molly Razorgirl), while some characters are already so immersed in the street that they are only known by their street nickname (The Roach, Two-Tone, Smartgunner, Razorgirl). If you have a name and nickname, then you have a name die of d6 and a starting Fate of 0. If you have already lost your name to the street, then you have a name die of d8 and a starting Fate of 8.

    Traits
    The punks that pull themselves out of the gutters and start to earn a name for themselves always have something that sets them apart. Something that makes them special. Each character picks two traits from the following list, and then explains how they get them. Some of the traits have suggestions. Typically this has something to do with the character's background and special training, cybernetic enhancements, or personality. A character cannot take the same trait twice. Often one or both of these traits will end up reflected in the character's nickname.

    +2 to Awareness rolls – Paranoia, Enhanced optics
    +2 to Reflexes rolls – Wired reflexes, Enhanced nervous system
    +2 to Body rolls – Grafted muscle, Bone replacement
    +2 to Cool rolls – Slicker than grease, Endorphin boosters
    +2 to Credibility rolls – Famous rocker, Big time media
    +2 to Hacking rolls – Interface plugs
    +2 to Medtech rolls – Trauma Team!
    +2 to Technical rolls – Jury rigging, Toolkit Cyberhand
    +2 to Athletics rolls – Enhanced musculature, Adrenaline booster
    +2 to Contacts rolls – Dataterm linkup, Implanted cellphone
    +2 to Stealth rolls – Coolsuit, Sneaky, Camoskins

    +1 Range for short-range weapons (weapons with ranges up to 2) – Skillchip, Combat Crystal
    +1 Range for long-range weapons (weapons with ranges over 2) – Skillchip, Targeting Optic

    +1 damage to machines
    +1 damage to the man
    +1 damage to streetscum
    +1 damage to cyborgs

    +2 to positioning roll when fighting machines
    +2 to positioning roll when fighting the man
    +2 to positioning roll when fighting streetscum
    +2 to positioning roll when fighting cyborgs
    +2 to positioning roll when fighting inside
    +2 to positioning roll when fighting outside
    +2 to positioning roll in bright conditions
    +2 to positioning roll in dim conditions
    +2 to positioning roll in dark conditions

    Origin / Allegiance
    Next we choose the primary source of the character's hardware, toys and mojo. This will change the flavour of your toys, but not their effects. A japanese cybersamurai's mono-edged katana isn't much different in killing ability from the high-tech low-life rigging shotgun shells into his pipewrench. Toys are fully detailed later.

    (Now I have to write up a bunch of origins to replace the Gods)
  5.  # 5
    Posted By: Dyson Logos(Now I have to write up a bunch of origins to replace the Gods)


    MegaCorporations, obviously. They're the ones who give you missions, the ones who pull all the strings, who are in competition with each other, and who'll fuck you up if you don't do what they want.
    • CommentAuthorDyson Logos
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2009 edited
     # 6
    Christian: Yep. Megacorporations mostly, but also some street factions, and organized crime (because it wouldn't be 80's Cyberpunk without the Yakuza kicking way too much ass).

    - - -

    Also, we need guns. It wouldn't be CyberPunk 2020 enough without funky guns from the future.

    So, to take a break from the real work of the conversion, and inspired by the awesome gun cards used in the DAGON game, I've made 16 different gun cards for play (thanks to the awesomeness of Pimp My Gun).

    The stats for them all are:

    Sniper Rifle | 1d10 | Range: 6 | 2 hands
    Rifle | 1d8+1 | Range: 5-6 | 2 hands
    Assault Rifle | 2d8 | Range 5-6 | 2 hands
    Submachine Gun | 2d6 | Range 2-4 | 1 hand
    Machine Pistol | 2d6 | Range 2 | 1 hand
    Handcannon | 1d8 | Range 2 | 1 hand
    Stubby Shotgun or Flamethrower | 2d6 | Range 1 | 2 hands

    But I thought I would make them a bit more interesting (and cyberpunky) by producing brand-name examples of each.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/20509749/Agon-Ex-Machina-Guns
  7.  # 7
    Hmmm those weapon stats look a bit off to me. The most obvious example being:
    I'd put the rifles at range 4-5 maybe, and sniper still at 6. Remember, you can use weapons outside their natural range at a -2 penalty for 1 band, and -4 fpr 2 bands.

    Also, the sniper rifle lacking the +1, and having only one range band, is significantly inferior to the standard rifle - hard to imagine why anyone would use it. (Likewise machine pistol v SMg, though there things like concealibility may be a factor).
  8.  # 8
    Don't forget AIs as possible replacements for Gods, too.
  9.  # 9
    How would you stat the guns, demiurgeastaroth?

    - Add the +1 damage to the sniper rifle / support guns category
    - bring rifles down one range step.

    How to handle machine pistols vs subguns?

    - - -

    Thanks Steve, hadn't thought of implementing AIs yet.
    •  
      CommentAuthormjbauer
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2009
     # 10
    Posted By: Dyson LogosHow would you stat the guns, demiurgeastaroth?
    How to handle machine pistols vs subguns?


    Machine pistols can be 1 handed and submachine guns should probably be used 2 handed.
    • CommentAuthorValamir
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2009 edited
     # 11
    Agon is a game of attrition as much as it is rolling high numbers. Therefor the ability to roll moderately high numbers consistantly, is going to give you better results over time than high numbers occassionally.

    It can also be a challenge to manage narrow range bands.

    If I were doing a sniper rifle and wanted to mimic the deadiness of say ...God in Navy Seals...I'd stick with the limited 6 range band, but I'd give more on the +side. 2d8+2 would be much scarier than 1d10 at a range band of 6, but at a range band of 5 it would be only just as good as your assault rifle.

    I'd also cut the range of your asault rifles down to 4-5. 6 should be the range band where only the sniper plays effectively. Either that, or add several more range steps to the strip, but I think that would probably just be slower and less fun.

    Also rifle...not feeling it. The difference between a "rifle" and an "assault rifle" is that a rifle is civilian and an assault rifle is military. The gap between those in effectiveness has been steadily increasing. Back in the day, the civilian long arm was often superior to the military grade variety (see Pennsylvania Rifle vs. Brown Bess). During the Civil War they were much more comparable (largely because of the large number of military arms that wound up in private hands). But since then military grade has been leaving civilian grade in the dust. At least civilian grade in the sense of the guns you can buy at WalMart. The specialized Ueber hunting guns and sport competition shooting guns are comparable to (and often better than) military grade sniping rifles. Point being, that postulating a CyberPunk future where arms tech continues to spiral, the difference between a state of the art kill-you-dead assault rifle, and civilian piece straight off the gun rack should be even greater than it is today...so I would either nerf the rifle significantly or just eliminate it.

    Machine Pistol...yeah, 1 handed instead of 2...but I'd probably do something like 3d6-1. They're fun and all, but there's a reason no one serious really uses them.


    Here's an alternate damage idea. Make all of your automatic fire weapons multi dice. In fact for weapons where you can select you could do single shot as 1d8+1, 3 round bursts as 2d8 and a full auto as 4d8-1. Going to 6 or 8 dice (-2) for machine guns and other rapid fire large magazine type pull and spray weapons. Then do the Sorcerer Trick. Instead of just looking at who got the higher die, count ALL of the dice that (independently modified) beat the TN as a "hit" Letting you go for that "riddled with bullets" effect.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJarvis
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2009
     # 12
    In the modern military, to my knowledge, there is not difference between a 'rifle' and a 'sniper rifle'. The only soldiers that carry rifles, and not assault rifles, now are snipers. A rifle packs a more accurate punch over a longer distance than it's shorter, smaller-caliber cousin the assault rifle. The advantage of the assault rifle is rate of fire and larger clip size (made possible by smaller rounds).

    I would suggest giving the assault rifle a shorter range and more variable damage (2d6 for example) while giving the sniper rifle longer range but higher minimum and maximum damage (like 1d10+5 or something).
  13.  # 13
    Jarvis: Remember that this isn't the damage rolls we are looking at, but the attack dice. If you have 2d6 you have the ability to use one for offense and one for defense (suppressive fire) or both for offense (hail mary). And I can't picture giving a +5 bonus to any roll in Agon without breaking the game.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJarvis
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2009
     # 14
    Oh yeah! Haven't played Agon in far too long, apparently. Still, you see what I was aiming for. A sniper rifle should be far more accurate, dealing more damage. An assault rifle should totally have multiple dice, thereby allowing for suppressive fire and the like. Change the modifiers to whatever you like.

    Have you given any thoughts to multiple attacks? Rate of Fire is the major innovation in firearms and one of the major differences between pistols and SMGs and rifles and assault rifles.
    • CommentAuthorDyson Logos
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2009 edited
     # 15
    Valamir:

    Regarding machine pistols, they get used all the time in RPGs because they are cooler. And cyberpunk is definitely about cool over real functionality, so I would rather make them useful to promote coolness in play. And while I like the idea of allowing multiple dice to hit in combat, I don't want to hack the combat system heavily since I won't have that much time to playtest this and want to try to stay close to the mechanics of the original game.

    Jarvis:

    The automatic fire is what I use to allow single dice versus multiple dice in a weapon.

    Except for the brutal point-blank weapons (stubby shotguns and flamers) which get treated as automatic weapons (2 dice), semi-auto weapons get 1 die and automatic weapons get 2 dice.

    What we are trying to replace are the following weapons:

    Bow (1d8+1, range 5-6)
    Javelin (1d6+1, range 2-4)
    Spear (1d8, 1d6, range 2)
    Sword (2d6, range 1)

    Now, standard Agon also has the shield (1d8 defense only), but that doesn't suit the feel of Agon Ex Machina, which is why I'm giving the auto weapons the 2 dice so you have a means of getting defense dice. Also note that all weapons can be used up to 2 range bands outside their optimal range but at a penalty of -2 per range band outside of optimal (so in this case a bow can actually be used at ranges of 3 to 8).

    Where I stand currently:

    Long Range Support Weapons | 1d10+2 | Range: 6 | 2 hands
    Rifle | 1d8+1 | Range: 5 | 2 hands
    Assault Rifle | 2d8 | Range 4-5 | 2 hands
    Submachine Gun | 2d6 | Range 2-4 | 2 hands
    Machine Pistol | 2d6 | Range 2 | 1 hand
    Handcannon | 1d8 | Range 2 | 1 hand
    Stubby Shotgun or Flamethrower | 2d6 | Range 1 | 2 hands

    Is this starting to feel better?

    Or should I simplify it further and go back to the original weapons with different names (and just forget about trying to balance it for the missing shield)?

    Rifle (1d8+1, range 5-6)
    Submachine Gun (1d6+1, range 2-4)
    Machine Pistol (1d8, 1d6, range 2)
    Point Blank Weapon System (2d6, range 1)
  16.  # 16
    With no further reaction, I've gone with the stats posted above

    Long Range Support Weapons | 1d10+2 | Range: 6 | 2 hands
    Rifle | 1d8+1 | Range: 5 | 2 hands
    Assault Rifle | 2d8 | Range 4-5 | 2 hands
    Submachine Gun | 2d6 | Range 2-4 | 2 hands
    Machine Pistol | 2d6 | Range 2 | 1 hand
    Handcannon | 1d8 | Range 2 | 1 hand
    Stubby Shotgun or Flamethrower | 2d6 | Range 1 | 2 hands

    And have updated the PDF on Scribd

    Click here to View
    •  
      CommentAuthormjbauer
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2009
     # 17
    Off topic but:

    thanks for the Pimp My Gun recommendation.

    Best use of Flash ever.
  18.  # 18
    Hell yeah.

    Such a sweet flash toy.
  19.  # 19
    My playtest character sheet isn't nearly as cool as the original sheet, nor the uber-cool DAGON sheet, but here it is:

    •  
      CommentAuthorPaul B
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2009
     # 20
    That's a very sweet-looking character sheet.

1 to 20 of 20

  1.